Pedophiles to launch political party

Paedophiles have been gaining ground in all countries in the west. But these Dutch perverts seem to be pushing it faster than the sheeple will accept. Most likely they are testing the water to guage how long it will be until they can have their way. One recent development that really annoys me is how chav kids (girls) are into having Playboy logos on everything. They are totally advertising their availability to paedophiles by doing that. It should be banned, or alternatively balanced out by making it legal to smash everything with that logo on it. Hopefully there will be a substantial backlash against that Dutch party, but I tend to think the sheeple will just be increasingly apathetic and just accept it. This is a symptom of the end of a civilisation.
 
They should be able to have their own political party, but anybody who actually thinks they have a chance of succeeding needs to take of their tin-foil hat and curb their doomsday paranoia.
 
Norsemaiden said:
Paedophiles have been gaining ground in all countries in the west. But these Dutch perverts seem to be pushing it faster than the sheeple will accept. Most likely they are testing the water to guage how long it will be until they can have their way. One recent development that really annoys me is how chav kids (girls) are into having Playboy logos on everything. They are totally advertising their availability to paedophiles by doing that. It should be banned, or alternatively balanced out by making it legal to smash everything with that logo on it. Hopefully there will be a substantial backlash against that Dutch party, but I tend to think the sheeple will just be increasingly apathetic and just accept it. This is a symptom of the end of a civilisation.
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Why would their lack of interest cause them to accept it?

You all know it won't even be considered. Hopefully they'll be labelled extremists and be thrown in jail, or at least kicked in the arse...95 times.

Paedophiles should be completely annihilated. Hopefully I will have a hand in this at some stage of my life.
 
Pull The Plug said:
Why would their lack of interest cause them to accept it?

You all know it won't even be considered. Hopefully they'll be labelled extremists and be thrown in jail, or at least kicked in the arse...95 times.

Paedophiles should be completely annihilated. Hopefully I will have a hand in this at some stage of my life.
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Inhumanist said:
Public castration would remedy this situation. Even the most liberal people I know are 100% disgusted by these sick bastards.
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Statements like these, show an incredibly low level of maturity and intelligence.

Perhaps there is a reason said persons are sexually attracted to children? Did they incur some horrible abuse as a child themselves? Did they never grow up? Do they derive some sadistic pleasure besmirching the innocence of these young children? Or, is it totally natural? One hundred years ago it was perfectly common in the western world to take a young girl as ones wife. Two hundred years ago, it was perfectly normal to take a fourteen year old girl. In India and other countries, girls are married off at 12 and even earlier. The ancient Greeks were great pederasts, and routinely had sex with young boys. And this practice was adopted by many great philosophers, scientists, politicians, who essentially founded the western world. Point being, one has to question whether it is not natural to have sex with a sexually developed child?

And even if one does not find the reason for their interest in such young partners, surely with a little therapy and professional help, said persons may be cured of their afliction, rather than being sent to jail uncured, or being castrated, which is the most barbaric and sadistic thing Ive heard. One wonders about those who would wish to sadistically punish, rather than cure.
 
There is a lot of truth in what you said Speed. Indeed we do have to give thought to the reasons people behave as they do. A lot of the time (maybe most of the time) the motivation of pederasts seems to be more to do with the pleasure of damaging an innocent person. The reason I say this is just that the cases one hears about almost always involve an innocent victim who is not loved at all by his or her tormentor but is left seriously damaged or murdered. Lowering the age of consent would make it harder for convictions because there would have to be consideration of whether there was consent or not, rather than taken immediately as a criminal offense.

Documentaries about paedophiles always stress that they are incurable. It is the same as with psychopaths. As long as any sexual arousal can happen, they will be a danger. Such people are psychopathic in their inability to actually care at all about their victim. They are driven by selfish desires to satisfy themselves. They are known to be very cunning and not to have the ability to feel genuine remorse.

Saying the Greeks routinely had sex with young boys is a conclusion that the public is encouraged to believe by the opinion makers of our society. They seem to favour the idea of such behaviour increasing in our society. From the following information I have found, such accounts of the Greeks are greatly exaggerated.

"Flaceliere, Robert

On pages 49 -50 of his authoritative and well documented book Love in Ancient Greece (trans. by James Cleugh. Frederick Muller Ltd., London; 1962), Flaceliere writes: "t appears extremely likely that homosexuality of any kind was confined to the prosperous and aristocratic levels of ancient society. The masses of peasants and artisans were probably scarcely affected by habits of this kind, which seem to have been associated with a sort of snobbery. The available texts deal mainly with the leisured nobility of Athens. But they may give the impression that pederasty was practiced by the entire nation. The subject, however, of the comedy by Aristophanes entitled Lysistrata suggests that homosexuality was hardly rampant among the people at large. It would be an error to think so. ... There was nothing particularly 'Greek' about homosexual feeling. The nation in antiquity was by no means alone in providing illustrations of inversion (see note below), which has been practiced at almost all times and in almost all countries. ... In the pre-Christian era, the case of Sodom is well known. Nor were the Persians, the Etruscans, the Celts or the Romans ignorant of homosexuality. But its existence among these peoples was kept more or less secret on account of the discredit which attached to it. But in Greece, though pederasty was forbidden by law in most cities, it had become so fashionable [among the artists and aristocrats] that no one troubled to conceal it."



On page 140 he writes: "The permanent popularity of courtesans [hetairai] in ancient Greece is surely the best proof that homosexuals were either not consistently so or not particularly numerous. We have already suggested that inversion was never very prevalent except in one class of society and over quite a limited period." (Emphasis added.)



Note: Inversion: "Assumption of the sexual role of the opposite sex; homosexuality." The American College Dictionary. Random House, New York; 1966"Aeschines then instructs the clerk to read the law pertaining to the "outrage" of a child.



"Law



If any Athenian shall outrage a free-born child, the parent or guardian of the

child shall prosecute him before the Thesmothetae, and shall demand a

specific penalty. If the court condemn the accused to death, he shall be

delivered to the constables and be put to death the same day. If he be con-

demned to pay a fine, and be unable to pay the fine immediately, he must

pay within eleven days after the trial, and he shall remain in prison until payment

is made. The same action shall hold against those who abuse the persons of

slaves. (16.)"




http://www.grecoreport.com/citations_pertaining_to_homosexuality.htm
 
Norsemaiden said:
There is a lot of truth in what you said Speed. Indeed we do have to give thought to the reasons people behave as they do. A lot of the time (maybe most of the time) the motivation of pederasts seems to be more to do with the pleasure of damaging an innocent person. The reason I say this is just that the cases one hears about almost always involve an innocent victim who is not loved at all by his or her tormentor but is left seriously damaged or murdered. Lowering the age of consent would make it harder for convictions because there would have to be consideration of whether there was consent or not, rather than taken immediately as a criminal offense.

Documentaries about paedophiles always stress that they are incurable. It is the same as with psychopaths. As long as any sexual arousal can happen, they will be a danger. Such people are psychopathic in their inability to actually care at all about their victim. They are driven by selfish desires to satisfy themselves. They are known to be very cunning and not to have the ability to feel genuine remorse.

Saying the Greeks routinely had sex with young boys is a conclusion that the public is encouraged to believe by the opinion makers of our society. They seem to favour the idea of such behaviour increasing in our society. From the following information I have found, such accounts of the Greeks are greatly exaggerated.

"Flaceliere, Robert

On pages 49 -50 of his authoritative and well documented book Love in Ancient Greece (trans. by James Cleugh. Frederick Muller Ltd., London; 1962), Flaceliere writes: "t appears extremely likely that homosexuality of any kind was confined to the prosperous and aristocratic levels of ancient society. The masses of peasants and artisans were probably scarcely affected by habits of this kind, which seem to have been associated with a sort of snobbery. The available texts deal mainly with the leisured nobility of Athens. But they may give the impression that pederasty was practiced by the entire nation. The subject, however, of the comedy by Aristophanes entitled Lysistrata suggests that homosexuality was hardly rampant among the people at large. It would be an error to think so. ... There was nothing particularly 'Greek' about homosexual feeling. The nation in antiquity was by no means alone in providing illustrations of inversion (see note below), which has been practiced at almost all times and in almost all countries. ... In the pre-Christian era, the case of Sodom is well known. Nor were the Persians, the Etruscans, the Celts or the Romans ignorant of homosexuality. But its existence among these peoples was kept more or less secret on account of the discredit which attached to it. But in Greece, though pederasty was forbidden by law in most cities, it had become so fashionable [among the artists and aristocrats] that no one troubled to conceal it."



On page 140 he writes: "The permanent popularity of courtesans [hetairai] in ancient Greece is surely the best proof that homosexuals were either not consistently so or not particularly numerous. We have already suggested that inversion was never very prevalent except in one class of society and over quite a limited period." (Emphasis added.)



Note: Inversion: "Assumption of the sexual role of the opposite sex; homosexuality." The American College Dictionary. Random House, New York; 1966"Aeschines then instructs the clerk to read the law pertaining to the "outrage" of a child.



"Law



If any Athenian shall outrage a free-born child, the parent or guardian of the

child shall prosecute him before the Thesmothetae, and shall demand a

specific penalty. If the court condemn the accused to death, he shall be

delivered to the constables and be put to death the same day. If he be con-

demned to pay a fine, and be unable to pay the fine immediately, he must

pay within eleven days after the trial, and he shall remain in prison until payment

is made. The same action shall hold against those who abuse the persons of

slaves. (16.)"




http://www.grecoreport.com/citations_pertaining_to_homosexuality.htm
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I still dont buy they cant be cured. Is there information to support this? Furthermore, if they are having sex with persons who themselves are sexually mature--12 year old boys and girls--then one would have to cure them of sex, which is a totally natural and primal urge.

My intention for the previous post, was to highlight how hypocritical, and somewhat knee-jerk the reactions of the "lets kill these pedophiles," reactions were. If the proposed pedophilia party was trying to lower the age to that of 12, not to 8 or 6, then I see no problem physically as the persons are sexually mature themselves. Socially, there was no problem a hundred years ago with such a sexual congress. Psychologically, this may be the biggest problem to the 12 year old, as sex with a much older person is sure to leave some lasting problems. However, what do these extreme reactions say of the psychology of those who made them? They say they'd like to see such people sadistically tortured. Thats frightening.

By Greeks, I mean the aristocratic Greeks. IT is well-known that amongst the cultured elites, homosexuality throughout most of western history, has been common. I see no reason why the populaiton wouldnt be from 2-5% gay, like most modern socieities. Also, the modern greece is supposed to have the highest rate of homosexuality in the modern world. But I made the first gay comment, in response to show how sex with younger persons has been socially accepted throughout history. I really dont want to start another homosexuality war.
 
speed said:
I still dont buy they cant be cured. Is there information to support this? Furthermore, if they are having sex with persons who themselves are sexually mature--12 year old boys and girls--then one would have to cure them of sex, which is a totally natural and primal urge.

My intention for the previous post, was to highlight how hypocritical, and somewhat knee-jerk the reactions of the "lets kill these pedophiles," reactions were. If the proposed pedophilia party was trying to lower the age to that of 12, not to 8 or 6, then I see no problem physically as the persons are sexually mature themselves. Socially, there was no problem a hundred years ago with such a sexual congress. Psychologically, this may be the biggest problem to the 12 year old, as sex with a much older person is sure to leave some lasting problems. However, what do these extreme reactions say of the psychology of those who made them? They say they'd like to see such people sadistically tortured. Thats frightening.

By Greeks, I mean the aristocratic Greeks. IT is well-known that amongst the cultured elites, homosexuality throughout most of western history, has been common. I see no reason why the populaiton wouldnt be from 2-5% gay, like most modern socieities. Also, the modern greece is supposed to have the highest rate of homosexuality in the modern world. But I made the first gay comment, in response to show how sex with younger persons has been socially accepted throughout history. I really dont want to start another homosexuality war.
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No there's no need for a homosexuality war. I am going to try to say what seems to be accurate from what I can assertain trying to keep emotion and bias out of it as much as possible.

First thing - having reconsidered the whole thing, I see the monster of Capitalism behind this whole issue. There is an obvious deluge of marketing now aimed at teen and preteen girls in particular. I have already mentioned the Playboy phenomenon. They're not after selling them dolls so much any more as it more lucrative if they can sell them all the products that go with the neuroses, hang-ups and pressures women face trying to fit the media-driven images of how women are supposed to be. So they market thongs to ten year old, with suggestive slogans on them; teen magazines full of advice on giving blowjobs; cosmetics; sexually explicit pop music,etc. Just yesterday a kid aged about 5 was singing along to the song playing in a shop I was in, "Don't you wish your girlfriend was hot like me?". And the mother was giving praise and helping her remember the words.

I have just been interupted but this post will continue shortly!
 
Continuing.

Regarding whether paedophiles can be cured. First of all if its just a case of a heterosexual also fancying girls that look sexually mature then that's not proper paedophilia. The real paedophiles can consist of men who know it is wrong, feel shame and also have never acted on their urges. These can be cured - because they WANT to be cured. The others, who either don't think its something to be ashamed of and/or have done something are considered incurable in that they will always be a danger and would be expected to reoffend unless they are kept away from opportunities.

"MARK COLVIN: Although psychologists now believe that paedophilia is essentially incurable, they've been working in recent years on ways to stop paedophiles acting on their desires."
From interview with Professor David Greenburg, Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at the University of Western Australia. http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2004/s1210733.htm

While sexual maturity is now occuring much earlier than it did in the last century and before, it is not accompanied by mental maturity. http://www.mens-network.org/puberty.html This leads to kids not knowing how to deal with sexual issues as well as adults do, and they need protecting from exploitation.

Average onset of menstruation in 19th century was at age 17 http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/breast-cancer-525-prevent-breast-cancer-at-every-age.html

Puberty in boys starts around 11 but they don't usually reach full sexual maturity till nearly 18. Many girls don't reach it until 16. http://www.infoforhealth.org/pr/j41/j41chap1_2.shtml

Reducing the age of consent to 12 has the effect of making it more acceptable to target even younger children. After all, while no one over 16 looks like a totally sexually undeveloped child there would be quite a few aged 12 who do (and it would then be legal for adults to have sex with them and for them to appear in mainstream pornography on the cover of magazines in the local newsagent, or sex scenes in movies, or modelling lingerie, etc.) So a new trend would have been set whereby prepubescent children would be drawn into the marketing of sex which was previously only aimed at adults.

Finally - when one hears of paedophiles with a desire to seriously abuse and sadistically torture children, it is only natural to feel such anger that one would not consider sadistic revenge to be overstepping the mark. In fact, if we don't feel this way, there can be a danger of insufficient deterence leading to more harm done to children, and to a torpor of apathy that leads to those who have an agenda and the will to impose it facing no serious opposition. The need to maintain public order is the reason why things that outrage public opinion have always had to bide their time. While extreme public disorder such as lynchings and rioting may seem abhorrent or backward the threat of such behaviour can help to protect society. (It's advantages may well outweigh its drawbacks.)

I just remembered - pubic hair, the way that it is virtually derigeur for in porn for it to all be shaved off. The reason is clearly so that prepubescent girls will be possible to envisage in future "adult" porn - like 12 year olds that are prepubescent. Also as the whole thing gets totally mainstream, much younger girls will not feel as inhibited from having ambitions to earn money that way and more products can be sold to them as they feel they need to fit in with the new trend. It is a double victory in destroying the nation and selling fools loads of harmful crap.
 
Am I wrong in thinking that paedophelia is not commonly defined as sexual attraction to children but as exclusive or near-exclusive sexual attraction to children? This would help to understand the Ancient Greek relations between adults and children - these were simply one part of a much more diverse sexuality.

Norsemaiden, I don't want it to look like I'm following you around and trying to start arguments, I just find your posts to be some of the most interesting and thought-provoking on these pages. What would you say to a person who held the utmost respect and love for children yet also an undeniable sexual attraction to them? And what if this person had never and never intended to act upon these desires, and acknowledged them as the fantasies that they were. What if this person enjoyed artistic representations of nude children or children engaged in sexual acts, as a method of catharsis which helped make this desire bearable? Try not to assume that such a person was insane, damaged, irrevocably demented, etc. Such a person could be a perfectly constructive, even valuable member of society, despite what 90+% of the world would call a disease. As long as this person was aware that to act upon their desires with a real child would be vastly damaging, how could one find it feasible to treat these people as if they were a problem?
 
I've never had a problem with paedophilia, only it's contextual disadvantages which thus turn it into an underground act, very worthy of being despised. It's predatory and abhorrent.
 
derek said:
I've never had a problem with paedophilia, only it's contextual disadvantages which thus turn it into an underground act, very worthy of being despised. It's predatory and abhorrent.
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It is predatory and abhorrent. And because of that, persons act just as abhorrently (see the desire to have them killed and tortured) at those who are pedophiles, without attempting to help them, or find out why it is they think like they do. The same thing happens to drug addicts, rapists, peeping toms, and to a lesser extent, persons who hold contrary views than the herd.

I was trying to showcase how such a condemned behavior--which can be argued from the physical and social perspective as being acceptable--is treated with malicious, sadistic hate. And from my previous examples, I am also trying to prove, that many things people do that are illegal or thought strange in our society, are punished with cruelty and sadism, rather than any attempt at understanding or rehabilitation. Is that a truly human emotion? I think it is. And will pedophilia go away if one locks the offenders up, to be gang raped? I think not.
 
speed: What I said obviously had a deal of sarcasm and exaggeration.

Well consdiering paedophilia is immoral, I don't see myself as being immature and wrong for completely outlawing it.

If they (paedophiles) have been abused and molestered as a child, does that give us a sense of sympathy or even (GULP) apathy towards their actions towards other children themselves?

I agree they should be helped, but not at any stage whatsoever should their behaviour be considered acceptable.
 
I never mentioned any sort of punishment, Curt :)

I am indeed on the boat of Plato, blind vengeance is for animals, I believe some sort of understanding should be sought. I still would find it immensely diffiuclt to be in a room with a pedophile and not wish to smash his skull, and by saying that I just hope to illustrate how hard it is to temper that attitude in order to achieve something more worthy of our intellectual growth as a species, as Plato said.
 
Demilich said:
Am I wrong in thinking that paedophelia is not commonly defined as sexual attraction to children but as exclusive or near-exclusive sexual attraction to children? This would help to understand the Ancient Greek relations between adults and children - these were simply one part of a much more diverse sexuality.

Norsemaiden, I don't want it to look like I'm following you around and trying to start arguments, I just find your posts to be some of the most interesting and thought-provoking on these pages. What would you say to a person who held the utmost respect and love for children yet also an undeniable sexual attraction to them? And what if this person had never and never intended to act upon these desires, and acknowledged them as the fantasies that they were. What if this person enjoyed artistic representations of nude children or children engaged in sexual acts, as a method of catharsis which helped make this desire bearable? Try not to assume that such a person was insane, damaged, irrevocably demented, etc. Such a person could be a perfectly constructive, even valuable member of society, despite what 90+% of the world would call a disease. As long as this person was aware that to act upon their desires with a real child would be vastly damaging, how could one find it feasible to treat these people as if they were a problem?
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Gratified you find my posts so thought provoking Demilich.:) What I'd say to the person concerned is just that they should seek therepy, which would be likely to work if they cooperated. Carrying on as they were would not be in their interests as there would be a high chance that such a person would give in to temptation. Parents don't want such people left alone with or looking after their children. We all have to make sacrifices for the sake of being socially responsible. Looking at childporn encourages its production, making bastards rich and children to be abused and raped or murdered to make the images.

As parents are often abusers it is not all about exclusive attraction to children. If sex with children in ancient society was something kept secret and shameful, then that would be quite different from it being an accepted part of society. I don't know what to make of the ancient Greeks. They had that law against abuse of children and they had rules to stop abusers getting access to boys according to this: Aeschines tells the clerk of the court to read various laws pertaining to pederasty and homosexuality to the jury so as to provide them with the background information they'll need in order to render judgment. He begins with a law protecting young boys from being corrupted in school, because "when a boy's natural disposition is subjected at the very outset to vicious training, the product of such wrong nurture will be ... a citizen like this man, Timarchus":

Law

The teachers of the boys shall open the school-rooms not earlier than sunrise,

and they shall close them before sunset. No person who is older than the boys

shall be permitted to enter the room while they are there, unless he be a son of

the teacher, a brother, or a daughter's husband. If any one enter in violation of

this prohibition, he shall be punished with death. The superintendents of the

gymnasia shall under no conditions allow any one who has reached the age of

manhood to enter the contests of Hermes together with the boys. A gymnasiarch

who does permit this and fails to keep such a person out of the gymnasium, shall

be liable to the penalties prescribed for the seduction of free-born youth. Every

choregus who is appointed by the people shall be more than forty years of age.(12.) "
Etc. http://www.grecoreport.com/citations_pertaining_to_homosexuality.htm

Seems like pederasty was happening a lot amongst the artistocracy, while at the same time being illegal - which is weird.


Some people are capable of trying to tackle the problem of paedophiles in a rational and emotionally controlled way. The vast majority (more than 99%) by default, must be either: uninterested, pro-paedophile, or angry and vengeful to varying extents.

To propose that the angry and vengeful should themselves be targetted to change their urges would be a harder job even than trying to tackle paedophiles! The nearest one could achieve would be to make the angry view their behaviour as something that should not be socially acceptable (while in fact it is socially acceptable in that most people concur). These feelings being instinctive, it would require mass conditioning of minds and possibly chemicals in the water (fluoride has a passifying effect). Effectively it would require that the angry gain more TOLERANCE of paedophiles. With such tolerance comes lack of an urge to react against that which was previously not tolerated.

The violent intollerant reaction can be seen as being the same process as in groups of animals of the same species. They instinctively bully and reject the freak among them. Intellectuals wouldn't behave automatically like this of course - actually they run a stronger risk of being the rejects - however, the overall effect is better for the species than one of blind acceptance. The mass are not intellectuals, and we must ask ourselves: is it better that they have this instinct of intollerance or that they have a blind acceptance of everything?
 
Demilich, you cannot be accuse of stalking Norsemaiden around because Norse is everywhere, she is Omnipresent thoughout all posts!! lol!! I like her and agree most of her treads as well, eventhough they are sometimes a little long. But I prefer "long" to "stupid", something she is definitely not!! lol!
 
Well I hope she sees that I have a lot of respect for her and her long posts even though I do tend to be a little critical of them. Very nice reply though, NM.
 
I agree with speed, we should know better then being accomplice to this "witch hunt". After all, I'm sure they are treads on the web where fanatics go : "Should we stone all metal heads?"

A rape is still a rape, whatever the age. This doesn't change and is still totally innaceptable. I think we are talking here of "age of consent". I just wonder how many 12 yo girls dream to be wed with their 50 yo prince...

Aren't 12 yo in school anyway and have carefew? I think one of the biggest weakness of society is the education of our youth. We teach them to count, to read, to write but who actually shows them to think for themselves and look beyond "immediate pleasures"? You usually learn that on your own in your later teens or in college.
 
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