PETA angered by naked chicken :)

[ruonitb]

I don't eat meat and still you people annoy me. Let people eat what they want. There are bigger problems in the world, like Christians. Look at the Texas school situation and the burning of both adults and children in Africa. I would love nothing more to see the starving get fed with tons of meat. At least they get to eat.

I'm always baffled when this comes up. What kind of equation is this? The more mother's milk from cows I don't drink, the more people starve in africa? The more people go vegan, the more children get burned? Does being vegan somehow make me unable to recognise other issues?
By the way, humans are a subset of animals, so in animal-rights, the human-rights are included by definiton.

Also, I hope you know that poor countries get exploited for their plant resources so we can breed and fatten animals, right? And you also know that the production of any animal product is extremely inefficient when looking at what you have to put in and what you get out, right?
If you are really concerned about this, then you better go vegan immediately if you don't want to look like a hypocrite (though, that people are starving is a problem of distribution and not quantity).

Being vegan is a huge pain in the ass and requires more money. You have to be very careful or else you get sic. It sucks. I can understand why most people wouldn't put up with it.

I disagree. I'm currently writing my doctoral thesis in mathematics and I'm studying philosopy. So trust me, I'm a student and I don't have a lot of time and money; yet my daily calorie intake lies in the 4000kcal area, which also come from around 150-200g of protein (I'm a hobby-bodybuilder ).
I don't lack anything, I have no deficiencies and I don't have more money than the average student.
I even know vegan powerlifters who only have 50€/month for food.

I speak to quite a few vegans (yes, females) that talk about "humans are not meant to eat meat" and all that crap, but funny how they're constantly complaining about getting sick, having cold viruses that last like 2 weeks, while I rarely get sick, and if I do get something like a cold, it's gone in 3 days.

Let's be honest here - for every sick vegan you give me, I can easily give you over 100k sick non-vegans/non-vegetarians. It's not easy to be healthy on any diet.
The statistics speak for themselves. Just look at the amount of people who fall sick with diet and overall lifestyle related diseases (i.e. diseases of civilisation). The problem is that all those who think they are healthy now might turn sick later because of the diet they followed for decades. The baseline is that you have to plan your diet if you really want to make sure to be healthy.

Also, who are those people who create the demand for all the dietary/health supplements? Because there certainly is a demand. The way you put it, by choosing a vegan diet you are gonna be sick without in depth knowledge about nutrition and without the strong use of supplements, and by following the typical omnivore diet you are gonna be healthy without any problems.

Also the point about protein too. Going full vegan severely limits your choices of complete protein sources to eat.
I'll go out on a limb and say 99 per cent of the public don't understand the concept of amino acid profiles in food.
Again, deficiencies in various amino acids is quite terrible for the health.

Not that this would be a problem on a vegan diet, but I guess you know that it's not necessary to consume all essential amino acids at one time in order to avoid a protein deficiency. Also, as far as I know, protein deficiency isn't really an issue in the countries we live in. I can't even imagine what one would've to eat on a vegan diet in order to develop a serious protein deficiency. Probably only apples...

The general lack of protein consumption of course also leads to poor body composition (no surprise all these girls I talk too have high bodyfat percentage levels) and physical weakness (and yep, they talk about how weak they are and feel).

The general cliché is that vegans are skinny. So, that's nice for a change.
But let's be honest here again: you argue that because you've talked to some vegan girls, who you think are unhealthy because of their diet, an unplanned vegan-diet will lead to high body fat percentage, physical weakness and general unhealthiness. Come on, just check the obesity rates, check the statistics about preventable, lifestyle/diet-based diseases.
It's really not hard to find unhealthy, obese people (who aren't vegan).

I don't see how (with that in mind) you can still argue for an omnivore diet being unproblematic and healthy and doesn't need to planned.

But of course this can't be compared, since the healthy vegans are those who know a lot about nutrition and use a wide range of supplements in order to avoid deficiencies and the unhealthy ones are unhealthy because of their diet, right?

It's the same lose-lose situation as a vegan bodybuilder - if you look bad it's (of course) because of your vegan diet. If you look good, it's because you have extremely good genetics and/or use steroids (also, you would look even better if you ate meat and other animal products).


Look, I'm not saying that a vegan diet is healthier in general. I say that a diet is healthy if it's planned - be it vegan, vegetarian or "omnivorous".

 

[SocialNumb]

I'm always baffled when this comes up. What kind of equation is this? The more mother's milk from cows I don't drink, the more people starve in africa? The more people go vegan, the more children get burned? Does being vegan somehow make me unable to recognise other issues?
By the way, humans are a subset of animals, so in animal-rights, the human-rights are included by definiton.

Also, I hope you know that poor countries get exploited for their plant resources so we can breed and fatten animals, right? And you also know that the production of any animal product is extremely inefficient when looking at what you have to put in and what you get out, right?
If you are really concerned about this, then you better go vegan immediately if you don't want to look like a hypocrite (though, that people are starving is a problem of distribution and not quantity).

I disagree. I'm currently writing my doctoral thesis in mathematics and I'm studying philosopy. So trust me, I'm a student and I don't have a lot of time and money; yet my daily calorie intake lies in the 4000kcal area, which also come from around 150-200g of protein (I'm a hobby-bodybuilder ).
I don't lack anything, I have no deficiencies and I don't have more money than the average student.
I even know vegan powerlifters who only have 50€/month for food.

What are you going on about? I simply stated that there are bigger problems in the world then what people decide to eat. Like those not eating at all. Sure, lets go to Africa and put them on a vegan diet. That will work.

I am vegan. Not for the moral implications but for a none of your business reason. To me it's a huge pain in the ass so I hired a nutritionist. She even prepares all my meals for the week. (only me)

I'm well aware we are animals, thanks anyways.

See most people are not going to sit around figuring out their calorie intake and going all science on their foods. Hell, I wouldn't either. I don't care to, so I hire someone to. (This is a luxury most people can't afford) The food, assuming you're not eating the same shit all the time, cost more. (I don't half ass on food) So I can't blame anyone for not going vegan because IMO it sucks to have to do it yourself. It just sucks in general.

People love meat. It taste fantastic. Morals be gone, people will continue to eat it because it taste good. No amount of "education" is going to change this. You only live once and people want pleasure, animals be damned. We're selfish, sue us. Life is pretty pointless after all and then you die. Same reason I continue to smoke weed even though it's illegal here.

I personally will be eating meat again when the time is right for me. I miss it like crazy. I don't care how efficient it is or not getting it. I have the monies, give me my shit. I don't care what you have to do to get it. (I think I'll go free range/"organic" because it just taste better to me for some reason. Placebo? Don't care)

Sorry son, no utopian animal planet to come. Null and void.

 

[ruonitb]

What are you going on about? I simply stated that there are bigger problems in the world then what people decide to eat. Like those not eating at all. Sure, lets go to Africa and put them on a vegan diet. That will work.

But why would you state that if you don't mean to imply that somehow promoting one means to ignore the other?
"There are bigger problems" usually means that we should prioritise the other problems. Yet, I don't see why one would think that being vegan and promoting veganism leads to a lack of acknowledgment of other issues; there is no need to choose a priority. In fact, in "Making a killing", Bob Torres argues and demonstrates that the biggest issues of our time are all interconnected.

I didn't say that we should put them on a vegan diet. I said that countries in which people are starving are exploited in order to make us able to breed animals that we exploit. We feed the animals with valuable food that humans actually could eat. By exploiting the natural food resources of these countries, we also deprive them of any chance for independency.

You claim that there are bigger problems in this world, problems we should really care about. Yet, you seem to deny that these problems are connected to our consumerism and react with a "I don't care"-attitude.

I am vegan. Not for the moral implications but for a none of your business reason. To me it's a huge pain in the ass so I hired a nutritionist. She even prepares all my meals for the week. (only me)

Well, appearantly you are a special case. Why do you have the audacity to make the inductive inference that veganism in general is "a pain the ass" and requires "more money"?
Also, if you need someone to help you with your vegan diet, then I would be really interested in how you would manage to maintain a healthy non-vegan diet on your own...

See most people are not going to sit around figuring out their calorie intake and going all science on their foods. Hell, I wouldn't either. I don't care to, so I hire someone to. (This is a luxury most people can't afford) The food, assuming you're not eating the same shit all the time, cost more. (I don't half ass on food) So I can't blame anyone for not going vegan because IMO it sucks to have to do it yourself. It just sucks in general.

What kind of vegan stuff do you eat that costs so much more than the non-plant/synthetic alternative?
It's usually not necessary to calculate the daily calorie intake by the way.

People love meat. It taste fantastic. Morals be gone, people will continue to eat it because it taste good. No amount of "education" is going to change this. You only live once and people want pleasure, animals be damned. We're selfish, sue us. Life is pretty pointless after all and then you die. Same reason I continue to smoke weed even though it's illegal here.

I like the taste of meat and of various other animal products as well. But fortunately the generation of positive affective states can't be used as justification for any action. If that would be the case, any action that generates positive affective states in an individuum would be justified. Obviously, this has indefensible implications.

 

[Brandon E.]

Lame thread is lame.

 

[SocialNumb]

But why would you state that if you don't mean to imply that somehow promoting one means to ignore the other?
"There are bigger problems" usually means that we should prioritise the other problems. Yet, I don't see why one would think that being vegan and promoting veganism leads to a lack of acknowledgment of other issues; there is no need to choose a priority. In fact, in "Making a killing", Bob Torres argues and demonstrates that the biggest issues of our time are all interconnected.

It's the religious like crap I find annoying. People not eating is more important then people becoming vegan. I don't know how else to put it.

I find, in my experience, that a lot vegans are fanatics. Kinda like the smoker that quit and now wants everyone to quit. The alcoholics do this as well. So do people who change religions among other examples.

I didn't say that we should put them on a vegan diet. I said that countries in which people are starving are exploited in order to make us able to breed animals that we exploit. We feed the animals with valuable food that humans actually could eat. By exploiting the natural food resources of these countries, we also deprive them of any chance for independency.

You claim that there are bigger problems in this world, problems we should really care about. Yet, you seem to deny that these problems are connected to our consumerism and react with a "I don't care"-attitude.

I'm not denying anything. One just matters more than the other. Also read above regarding fanatics. It seems to me that they preach vegan obsessively and never say anything about the starving.

Well, appearantly you are a special case. Why do you have the audacity to make the inductive inference that veganism in general is "a pain the ass" and requires "more money"?
Also, if you need someone to help you with your vegan diet, then I would be really interested in how you would manage to maintain a healthy non-vegan diet on your own...

It is a pain in the ass. The fact that you have to deny yourself a good piece of meat alone is a pain in the ass.

Do you buy low quality food or something?

I don't plan to manage my diet at all. That's why I pay.

What kind of vegan stuff do you eat that costs so much more than the non-plant/synthetic alternative?
It's usually not necessary to calculate the daily calorie intake by the way.

Dude, I'm not going to list my damn menu right now. It's ever changing anyhow.

I like the taste of meat and of various other animal products as well. But fortunately the generation of positive affective states can't be used as justification for any action. If that would be the case, any action that generates positive affective states in an individuum would be justified. Obviously, this has indefensible implications.

Even though, currently, I do not cause intended harm on any sentient being, I still love meat and think it's natural to eat it. I see where you're coming from but I also understand the other side of it. While I do in fact have a vegan diet I could honestly say I'm bored with it.

Call me nuts but I think taking killing of animals off the planet also kills a lot of the joy there is to living on it. Kinda like having sex without touching your partner, if that tech ever gets sorted out. Sure, the option would be there but one arguably will be more pleasurable. I'm guessing most would side on the real deal. I think the same goes with food.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

Lame thread is lame.

True that! Funny how I read the OP, chuckled, started scrolling down slowly to read the responses, and the scrolling just got faster and faster

 

[Morgan C]

Also, who are those people who create the demand for all the dietary/health supplements? Because there certainly is a demand. The way you put it, by choosing a vegan diet you are gonna be sick without in depth knowledge about nutrition and without the strong use of supplements, and by following the typical omnivore diet you are gonna be healthy without any problems.
Look, I'm not saying that a vegan diet is healthier in general. I say that a diet is healthy if it's planned - be it vegan, vegetarian or "omnivorous".

Don't confuse a 'good omnivore diet' with the typical American diet of McDonalds and TV.
I don't plan my diet at all. I just make sure I get a wide variety of vegetables, meat, fruit, wholegrains, eggs and nuts, and occasionally supplement with fish oil (because fish is expensive) and whey (because I'm lazy).
An unplanned vegan diet like that, with only those two supplements (if you can even have those two supplements on a vegan diet!), I'd imagine would be disastrous.

Egg and whey are better protein sources than any meat by the way.

Sure, but you can't eat those on a vegan diet. Also, whey is NOT a better protein source than meat.

 

[Shinozoku]

ITT: PETA is a bunch of loonies, eat a proper diet of organic foods be it vegan or omnivorous, America and modernized countries gorge on too much meat (4oz of beef a day is about all you need).

 

[ruonitb]

It's the religious like crap I find annoying. People not eating is more important then people becoming vegan. I don't know how else to put it.

Well, that's no problem. But still you seem to ignore that these issues might be connected. I can't recommend you any books about this, because I only read german ones, but there are quite a few books out there in which this problem is described. Donating money (for food) won't help; the only chance for solving this problem is if we somehow manage to support these countries so they get at least some sort of independency; but that won't happen as long as we exploit them for valuable (plant)-food resources. By doing that, the opposite is happening.
So, while you may think that people starving is a bigger problem than billions of non-human animals exploited, you shouldn't forget that one probably leads to the other. We won't even be able to start solving this problem as long as people are supporting the industry that exploits these countries.

Do you buy low quality food or something?

No, I usually don't. But high quality animal-products are expensive too...so maybe you shouldn't compare someone on a vegan diet who only buys high quality and organic stuff with someone who lives on the cheapest cheese and salami.

Don't confuse a 'good omnivore diet' with the typical American diet of McDonalds and TV.
I don't plan my diet at all. I just make sure I get a wide variety of vegetables, meat, fruit, wholegrains, eggs and nuts, and occasionally supplement with fish oil (because fish is expensive) and whey (because I'm lazy).
An unplanned vegan diet like that, with only those two supplements (if you can even have those two supplements on a vegan diet!), I'd imagine would be disastrous.

Well, that you "make sure" to get a wide variety of different products and supplement fish oil and whey could already be called planned. I don't do more than that as well (I don't supplement fish oil and whey though). What exactly do you think I'm gonna miss by doing that?

I would really like to know where this is coming from. Why do people think that one easily gets a deficiency on a vegan diet? I don't need to supplement protein; and I get 150-200g per day (too much anyway)...and I don't even have to plan that. And I don't to supplement Omega3/6 fatty acids (you don't have to either...and fish isn't the only source - and not the best).

Sure, but you can't eat those on a vegan diet. Also, whey is NOT a better protein source than meat.

Well, why would I want to consume egg and whey anyway? I really don't have to fear a protein deficiency.

Also, I bet your supplementation of whey is unnecessary.

 

[timmy_522]

Lame thread is lame.

But dammit someone on the internet is wrong and must conclusively be proven so.

 

[drew_drummer]

ruonitb: you are the ghost of Mr. Hands.

 

[Mago]

I read: "PETA angered by naked chick" and was pretty disappointed when I entered the thread

I found the pic funny at the first gaze for about 3 seconds,but the more I looked at it the more I found it disgusting. I don't think you should play with your food.

 

[MarcusGHedwig]

ruonitb: you are the ghost of Mr. Hands.

 

[SocialNumb]

Mr. Hands the horse fucker?

 

[drew_drummer]

Mr. Hands the horse fucker?

Yes.