Pickup Advice from an Engineer's perspective?

[GhostUnholy]

I'm looking to change pickups in two of my guitars, and i usually hang out on harmony central but most of the information there is from the perspective of perorming musicians. I want these instruments to useful for recording purposes, so I'm hoping that you guys will be able to help me out more

First guitar is a stock gibson les paul studio, second is a prs custom 24. I have a prs standard 24 as well but im happy to keep that one stock since I do like the PRS sound, I just want some variation. both are mahogany body & neck, with rosewood fretboards I believe, and the custom 24 has a maple top on the body.

the les paul i dont like that much for soloing so I want it to be my meaty rhythm axe, and im only gonna use it in as an at home guitar and in my recording projects (I'm a recording n00b btw) and the PRS I love so i want it to be balanced for rhythm and lead playing...

So i guess to cut to the chase, recommend me two pickup sets, one for each guitar. For the les paul i need something thats going to give me a huge rhythm sound when i record. I'm entertaining the idea of EMGs since they seem to be the standard, but basically what I WANT to hear is that I can get that kind of sound with certain passives, perhaps the Dimarzio D activators, adder plus persuader, or bareknucle miracle man/cold sweat set? The PRS I want a good versatile combination as i will be using it live and in the studio for a variety of applications, I was thinking maybe a JB/jazz combo?

by the way, I play tech death and thrash metal, and I tune down to drop c. any help from the perspective of an engineer would be appreciated since i record everything direct in, what pickups would record well as opposed to just sounding good when playing live.

 

[Trep]

I Dont Like Active Guitar Pickups.

EMG and Duncan blackouts ect ect, will make a $200 with Actives Guitar Sound like a $4000 with actives. Great news for the Dude with the $200 Guitar

Actives sound scratchy, compressed, fuzzy, and undynamic. You have some beautiful Guitars and i would wanna take adavantage of ther quality.
Personal Choice i prefer something a bit smoother. Favourite pickups to date are Seymour Duncan JB Bridge and Seymour Duncan Jazz neck

BTW they sound Great in Drop C. I recorded a band with them In a Ibanez s Series (presteige) with Mahogany Bod, Sounded Great.

Hope i could help

 

[Tommy Gun]

You will find what you want in passives my friend. I would also suggest the Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge of ANYTHING Mahogany. I'm not a big fan of the Jazz neck pickup, but that really is a matter of personal preference. I prefer the '59 in the neck, myself. I can tell you that the D-Activators are very nice as well. My other guitar player just got a Xiphos, which came loaded with those. He loves them. I'll stick with the JB, but the D-Activators do sound very good, none the less.

 

[JBroll]

I Dont Like Active Guitar Pickups.

EMG and Duncan blackouts ect ect, will make a $200 with Actives Guitar Sound like a $4000 with actives. Great news for the Dude with the $200 Guitar

Actives sound scratchy, compressed, fuzzy, and undynamic. You have some beautiful Guitars and i would wanna take adavantage of ther quality.
Personal Choice i prefer something a bit smoother. Favourite pickups to date are Seymour Duncan JB Bridge and Seymour Duncan Jazz neck

BTW they sound Great in Drop C. I recorded a band with them In a Ibanez s Series (presteige) with Mahogany Bod, Sounded Great.

Hope i could help

The Murphy will be visiting you shortly. Prepare to be raped by a jackhammer.

Seriously, this argument is complete bullshit - HCAF-idiot-level complete bullshit. They're pickups, not wood-killing gremlins. Yeah, you can recognize EMGs - but if you can't tell the difference between a Les Paul and an RR or a Strat JUST BECAUSE OF THE PICKUPS, you really shouldn't be in AE because your hearing fails.

Jef

 

[Trep]

The Murphy will be visiting you shortly. Prepare to be raped by a jackhammer.

Seriously, this argument is complete bullshit - HCAF-idiot-level complete bullshit. They're pickups, not wood-killing gremlins. Yeah, you can recognize EMGs - but if you can't tell the difference between a Les Paul and an RR or a Strat JUST BECAUSE OF THE PICKUPS, you really shouldn't be in AE because your hearing fails.

Jef

Im not sure if you understand what im saying, But just to re-enforce and make clearer, i think that there is marginal difference and variation between 2 guitars which have Active Pickups in them due to them colouring the tone so much.

I think that the wood ect of a guitar influences the tone alot more with passive pickups.

I just prefer Passive Pickups, Thats My oppinion, Chill Out, No need to be Rude.

 

[Trep]

I can tell you that the D-Activators are very nice as well. My other guitar player just got a Xiphos, which came loaded with those. He loves them. I'll stick with the JB, but the D-Activators do sound very good, none the less.

I agree.

 

[Metaltastic]

Im not sure if you understand what im saying, But just to re-enforce and make clearer, i think that there is marginal difference and variation between 2 guitars which have Active Pickups in them due to them colouring the tone so much.

I think that the wood ect of a guitar influences the tone alot more with passive pickups.

Yes, we completely and fully understand that this is what you were saying, and also disagree. If anything, the wood makes more of a difference with actives, because most of the "coloration" from active pickups mostly comes from their microscopic level of detail that they pick up. Having EMG's in both of my extremely different guitars (in terms of wood), I can confidently say that this myth of actives making all guitars sound the same is BS. Saying you prefer passives is fine; stating these false "facts" about EMG's is not.

 

[gorath23]

I personally think EMG's record seriously well, and you only have to look at the number of albums recorded with them to see that fact. I'm also a big fan of Bare KNuckle's. They cost a premium, but are worth it. I've played quite a few and my favourites were the Mule and the Nailbomb (which I currently have in a Les Paul). The Nailbomb is incredibly meaty and open sounding, great for huge sounding rhythm guitars.

 

[Tommy Gun]

Let me be clear on my own standpoint as well. I, as some of you know, am a passives guys, all the way. But, the "actives masking the natural tone" myth really is horse shit. You have to look at it this way. ALL pickups color the natural tone of the guitar in one way or another. Passives and Actives just take a different approach to doing so. You cannot mask the natural tone of a guitar. The wood is reverberating through the pickups. You cannot change that. Period. Not liking actives is a matter of personal preference. I PREFER passives, but that is not saying that Actives are poorly designed shit boxes. The EMG 81 has been a long-running industry standard in Metal. That cannot be ignored. I just don't prefer them for my rig and my personal sound, as a guitarist.

My reason for suggesting passives over actives in this thread was because he said that he would prefer to try and get the sound he wanted from passives. I was only letting him know that, yes, that is possible.

 

[JBroll]

Im not sure if you understand what im saying, But just to re-enforce and make clearer, i think that there is marginal difference and variation between 2 guitars which have Active Pickups in them due to them colouring the tone so much.

I think that the wood ect of a guitar influences the tone alot more with passive pickups.

I just prefer Passive Pickups, Thats My oppinion, Chill Out, No need to be Rude.

You can prefer passive pickups. That's fine. I'm not being rude, I'm being very direct - there's a big difference, and you'd do well to figure it out.

There is NO WAY IN HELL you can say that active pickups color tone too much... and then turn around and recommend a JB. Yeah, actives color the tone... as do passives. You know what an active is? Passive pickup with an internal preamp... and I love it when people get passives and an internal preamp and turn around to complain about actives.

You're completely entitled to your opinion, but this is a stupid myth that needs to die. Like whatever you want, but understand that when you bash active pickups with such an awful argument you lose a lot of credibility.

Jeff

 

[jangoux]

I am in the same boat as Ghostunholy. I have two guitars, a Cort M600 and a Gibson SG Standard. The Cort has a Bareknuckle Rebel Yell bridge, and the SG a Seymour Duncan Custom 8, and i am bored with both.

I love the tone i listen recorded with EMG 81s and 85s, but ive played a feel guitars with them (most cheap guitars, btw) and i hated the feel - kinda stiff like ceramics. So, this is why i have no clue if I really should buy a set for my Cort - or something like a Nailbomb or something.

For the SG, i have no clue what to get - I was going to post here about it but this post come first so i am following it closely.

 

[midget donkeys]

I use type x pickups. Anyone that doesn't is full of poop. End of story.

Seriously though the pickup thing is like the old beer tv ads "taste great vs less filling". There are guys that have sounded great with passive pickups. There dudes that have sounded great with active.

To answer the orignal question, I would recommed to go try out both types on guitars in a store. And if you can't find guitars on the rack in a store that have the pickups you are looking for, buy both types, then put one in one guitar the other in the second, then test drive them for a month and switch the guitars they are in.

I assume you have some money to spend if you can afford two nice guitars.

For what is worth on my guitars I have a JB in my Ibanez Jem and the humbuckers from a Lespaul (don't know the model) in my Washburn Dimebag and I am not disapointed.

Peace

 

[Amberience]

It's just my observation...

But it appears even though you've asked for an engineer's perspective, you're still getting guitarist perspectives. Damn shame.

 

[ProjectHamsterdam]

I kind of have a similar pickup dilemma, so I'll just share my experience from the last couple of weeks. (guitarist perspective once again )

Exhibit A: I had a custom guitar made for me, nothing fancy, just the bare necessities. I wanted a very stripped-down guitar and got it: thick African mahogany body (superstrat shape but thicker than usual), modern C-shape maple neck and dark ebony fretboard, 25.5' scale, graphite nut, Schaller fixed bridge and Schaller M6 locking tuners.

I put in a Seymour Duncan JB in the bridge and a DiMarzio PAF Pro in the neck. I just got the guitar last week, so I am test-driving it now.

Exhibit B: My other guitar is quite different: alder body, thin maple neck with rosewood fingerboard, 25.5' scale, floyd-equipped, with EMG 81 bridge/85 neck (the Kerry Fucking King EMG set with the PA2)

Both are tuned to D. I wanted two different guitars, different woods, different pickups - just for versatility's sake. The thing is. . . I expected a huge difference in sound and feel between both guitars. And there is a difference. Just NOT a night and day difference and especially not coming from the pickups.

Now that I can compare the JB and the 81 in the bridge (strictly speaking about high gain sounds only), I can say that I am happy with both. Actually, I can get very similar sounds with them. The JB makes me tweak the amp a little more, because I feel it has a bit more shriller highs (IMHO that is). It is also a bit spongier and only that little bit more flubbier than the 81, but there is also the tonewoods difference to consider. As to feel, I don't think that one feels better than the other and the difference is not that great. The differences are subtle and more apparent to the player than the audience.

Ah, something I forgot - the JB sounds very good in parallel too (with high gain amps), which I did not expect. (I thought it would only work well for cleans)

So there's my two cents on that. I made some short samples for myself to compare one pickup against the other (I have seen such a comparison of the JB, 81 and 85 posted on this forum before, but I don't remember the thread title), and again I found that there is a difference in the sound, just not that huge. Disclaimer: I suck at recording, so that might just be me.

PS: About the neck pickups, the PAF Pro was a huge letdown for me. I am still surprised that I can not get a good sound out of it. I much prefer the EMG85 - it is smooth and dark, while the PAF Pro has that annoying screechy fizz that I just hate in a neck pickup. I also expected the PAF Pro to be more dynamic, but as it turns out, I like the 85 much more - it can be dark and subdued or it can reflect your pick attack more the harder you pluck. I just love the 85. Not the case with the PAF Pro. So there you go, I think it's more a matter of taste than anything else.

Now I am looking for a dark, smooth, dynamic but muscular neck pickup to work well in a mahogany body guitar (Exhibit A).

I think the Dimarzio Air zone would be suitable but I have no way to try it. Any SD alternatives? Other, more exotic pickups like bare knuckles - I can't get them where I live, the delivery is just a pain in the ass here. Thanks and sorry for the long post guys.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

From an engineer's perspective: I prefer EMG for heavy Rhythm. Leads, whatever.

FWIW, I reamp bands in 7 different countries & have worked with all sorts of players & pickups. IMHO, EMG's rule.

 

[Kazrog]

I've always been happiest with EMGs. That said, I do have a few guitars with passives that are fun to play and never make it on my recordings.

JBroll has already said what I would have said, and better than I would have said it.

 

[GhostUnholy]

Alright so with the reading i've been doing the 81 looks good to me, and thanks for all your comments guys. The les paul just used at home for recording and jamming so i guess actives are fine. I only wanted to go passive for the inconvenience of changing batteries every now and then.
My bud brought over his new jackson, i dont know the specs for woods and all but he has a JB in it and when we compared the DI between his guitar and my PRS i didn't really notice much difference, a little tweaking on the tone and we had identical sounds so i may not swap out my PRS pickups.

What do you guys think of going emg 81/89 though? Would i be losing a lot by not going 85 in the neck? Also i've seen people who like the 85 more in the bridge, any comments on that setup?

 

[Tommy Gun]

I don't understand putting an 85 in the bridge. I've never been an "EMG user" (had a Charvel Custom years ago with an 81 in the bridge), but I do know that the guys that made EMG's famous, IE- James Hetfield, Kirk Hammett, Kerry King, Zakk Wylde, and a many, many more have ALL used the 81 in the bridge. Some guys back in the day did use the 89 in the neck, but I have no reference or opinion on that. I do, however, see the 85 as a neck pickup. I think the 81 in the bridge is the "constant". All the top guys use setups like 81/85, 81/81, and the aforementioned 81/89. I don't get this new 85-bridge fad. And yes, I do absolutely think it's a silly FAD.

 

[JBroll]

I prefer the sound of the 85 in the bridge, personally. I've also heard good things about the 81 in the neck, of all places, so I'm tempted to try that setup as soon as I can afford another EMG and a guitar.

Jeff

 

[JBroll]

I don't understand putting an 85 in the bridge. I've never been an "EMG user" (had a Charvel Custom years ago with an 81 in the bridge), but I do know that the guys that made EMG's famous, IE- James Hetfield, Kirk Hammett, Kerry King, Zakk Wylde, and a many, many more have ALL used the 81 in the bridge. Some guys back in the day did use the 89 in the neck, but I have no reference or opinion on that. I do, however, see the 85 as a neck pickup. I think the 81 in the bridge is the "constant". All the top guys use setups like 81/85, 81/81, and the aforementioned 81/89. I don't get this new 85-bridge fad. And yes, I do absolutely think it's a silly FAD.

That's also been around for a really long time, and you sound a bit silly saying that. You may think it hasn't been going on for a while, but you'd be wrong.

Jeff