possible job offer: drum editing

Fragle

Member
Jul 27, 2005
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Germany
hey guys,

alright, here's the situation: i'm working on this project, and have been trying to edit the drums for two weeks now, but there's just no hope, or in other words, my drum editing skills aren't sufficient to make sense out of this guy's playing. i'm pretty good at slip editing, but with this stuff that's just not cutting it. will explain.

project consists of nine songs. style = death metal. no split times (thank god), just bomb and gravity blasts, also quite a few grooves. ranges from 75 to 260 bpm.
the problem: they didn't use a click for half of the songs. some songs also got parts with and parts without a click. no real tempo map, just a text file stating which tempos are used throughout the song.
main issue: VERY FUCKING BAD DRUMMER. seriously, this guy shouldn't even be playing drums, let alone death metal. shitty kick, dragging blasts....for example, if he was supposed to hit the snare let's say 60 times during a blast section, he'll slow down right in the middle of the section and maybe play the snare 50 times, so slip editing is a no go here.

i guess anyone who knows his shit in pro tools will be able to make sense out of this mess...most of the time at least.
re-tracking is not an option, unfortunately.

i'm not sure what the usual rates are for this kind of job, that's why i said possible offer. if it's too much they'll just have to deal with what they played.
if you feel you're up to the task, just shoot me a pm with your rates. i'll gladly send you the multitracks of one of the songs so you can check it out yourself - but don't say you weren't warned.
actually, i'll say it once again, this is not for the inexperienced.
no real deadline btw.

thanks
 
What you have described is uneditable, Pro Tools will not make a difference :/ You can't edit a dish cloth into a Ferrari, the materials just aren't there.

Editing is a cool tool but it is not a magic wand unfortunately. You have to still be extremely anal during tracking if you want to end up with something that can be edited cleanly and sound great. Something has to be at least 90% there for the editing to give you that extra 10%.

Honestly your only option is to try and do a really good job programming realistic parts and just ditch the raw tracks completely. JeffTD is a drum programming wizard with Superior, maybe give him a shout.
 
I could try reprogramming it if you want, just send me the tracks for one song and I'll see what I can do!

Because if the situation is as bad as you say, like Adam said re-programming is the only way to save your project.
 
i'll upload one track later today.
unfortunately i didn't track the drums, so i had no control about the performances.
what i did so far was basically re-building the kick during the shaky double bass parts, and i also re-built the snare during the really bad blast sections. i know it's fucking up the phase with all the snare bleed into the OHs but there's no choice. it did work, but i just can't figure out how to do it properly during those no-click sections.
but as i said, i'll upload a track so you guys can judge it.

adam, remember the 20 second section i mailed you earlier this year? well, this guy is worse.
 
Hey! i can do drum editing with no problem. I got expirience for my own recordings (metalcore, deathcore and death metal), and i edit velocity much to get max real feel. Give me try.
 
alright guys, here's one tracK.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1296348/Andy Sneap Forum Files/DRUM EDITING.rar

450mb zipped, still uploading so please give it a while.

this song was tracked to click, i included the guitar scratchtrack (you'll have to use m/s encoding on that one as for some reason all the scratch tracks have the m/s thing completely messed up, i have no idea why), and also a txt file with all the bpm info.

i think the grooves can be edited just fine, especially since it's played to a click. i'm very curious however what you guys think about the blast sections.
if anyone can fix this kinda stuff it would be great. otherwise i'll call them and suggest re-programming the drums.

btw, total running time of the album is around 37 minutes. needless to say, they recorded the whole drums on one (!) day, including setup. and yes, i told them beforehand that this is NOT going to be sufficient. they didn't listen....
 
Fragle, are you working in PT? I ran into this same problem (a bad drummer), and have been editing in reaper. In Reaper I have been mapping the tempo of the tracks manually, since none of it was played to a click. Luckily the guys are inexperienced enough, and aware of their inexperience that they aren't asking for a miracle (they already think it sounds great:goggly:).
 
no, i'm working in reaper.
i just thought that for those groove sections (especially the ones without a click) elastic audio and groove templates should be very handy, that's why i mentioned PT. but i don't care what program you use, of course.
 
Ah, that makes sense. If I had more time I would definitely take this on. It sounds like reprogramming might be the way to go. Good luck, and hopefully we'll get to hear some before and after clips.

The tempo mapping i was referring to is based off of the drummers actual playing. You are probably already aware of it, as I am sure you have been using Reaper longer than I have. I'm not sure if it would work out the same as it would using elastic audio. Here's a link in case you or anyone else is interested:

http://www.benvesco.com/blog/reaper/2008/reaper-tempo-map/
 
If there is no deadline then just get someone to program it. If it's taken you two weeks, with no success then it's safe to say that it's beyond all hope. I've never had a full record take me any longer than a few days at most.
 
If there is no deadline then just get someone to program it. If it's taken you two weeks, with no success then it's safe to say that it's beyond all hope. I've never had a full record take me any longer than a few days at most.

Agreed.

If the performances are really hopeless (and by this I really mean hopeless), I usually just tell the band that this is how their playing sounds, and no amount of editing magic is going to change that fact unless we discuss some serious budget changes. Then I've just fixed the most dramatic mistakes and left the rest alone, and no-one has ever had a problem with that. Maybe it's unprofessional of me, but I'm kinda having this naive illusion that in the long run I'm helping these bands out :goggly:
 
Agreed.

If the performances are really hopeless (and by this I really mean hopeless), I usually just tell the band that this is how their playing sounds, and no amount of editing magic is going to change that fact unless we discuss some serious budget changes. Then I've just fixed the most dramatic mistakes and left the rest alone, and no-one has ever had a problem with that. Maybe it's unprofessional of me, but I'm kinda having this naive illusion that in the long run I'm helping these bands out :goggly:

This is what I had to do, and I also think they will be better for it in the long run.
 
stupid upload is taking ages, damn.

well, i've been working on this for two weeks, but not full time, just everytime i had some spare time left.
some of the performances are workable. by no means tight enough to be left alone, but absolutely workable. some of the blast sections are killing me though. i can't even figure out what he was trying to play, it sounds like he started the snare blast as 16th notes and changed to 8th note triplets in between, ending on 16th notes again,
 
upload is finished! good luck ;)

i'll be on tour for the rest of the week, but i'll try to check the forum every now and then. so, in case i won't reply here in the next couple of days you'll know why.

thanks!
 
Can you provide a MIDI for the tempo changes? Or indicate where they are?

Edit: Sorry just I've read the first post again

But could you post the midi of click used for the gtrs?
 
i don't have one. the click was done as an audio track during their pre-production, and is merged with the scratch guitar tracks the guitar player recorded at his house. you'll have to do your own tempo map based on the bpm info. that's what i did for the first couple of songs. this one's one of the later songs in the file, but i chose it for the particulary bad blast sections. if anyone can sort this one out, the other songs will be better/easier....most of the time at least.