Production on fiction + plus songwriting

[snuffcarl]

I know most people here worship fiction around here, i think its a great album but not nearly as interesting as for example the gallery... so i might just get banned for writing this =)

However, i am the only who thinks that the production is a bit too "clean"? I mean it sounds so pure that it gets a tad plain, looses energy and atmosphere. Somewhat like some of the tracks of the "exposures". I think it smells protool for fucking miles. Another flaw in the production is the fact that niklassons bassplaying is hardly present. In one of the few tracks that it is (NtNO) its fucking brilliant. It sort of pisses me off that he didnt get more space on the album. Looking forward hearing it live though!

On another while while im on the move, does anyone know who you are supposed to give credit to for the keybordplaying? As i understood it, Jivarp ( maybe hes actually the brain behind it all?=) writes most of the keyboard parts??

puss/ Calle

ps. Pls dont close the thread, i dont care if theres other threads dealing with similar stuff, as long as you alow threads like "WoW" and other shit, u should allow anything that has to with the actual music.ds

 

[Siren]

Since when is "clean" production a flaw? Oh, i know, let's go back to the atmospheric black metal days of Skydancer, the days of raw production, human skull offerings and doom! The cemeteries are getting crowded!

And just in case you didn't know, snuffcarl, there's a keyboardist in DT.


PS: Relax, closing threads is a rare incident around here. Unlike sarcasm.

 

[Taliesin]

However, i am the only who thinks that the production is a bit too "clean"? I mean it sounds so pure that it gets a tad plain, looses energy and atmosphere

I thought the album sounded too "produced" as well at first, but no one (openly) shared my opinion.
I think it's a good album, that doesnt strike my chords the way the other albums do. Anyway, welcome to the heretics club

 

[snuffcarl]

Since when is "clean" production a flaw? Oh, i know, let's go back to the atmospheric black metal days of Skydancer, the days of raw production, human skull offerings and doom! The cemeteries are getting crowded!

And just in case you didn't know, snuffcarl, there's a keyboardist in DT.


PS: Relax, closing threads is a rare incident around here. Unlike sarcasm.

In my opinion it obviously can! It becomes a flaw when the music does no longer sound "organic", looses its edge. However, as the case with all music, this is only my humble opnion and i was just intereseted in however there were other fans that felt the same way. Dont know what skulls have to do with skydancer, but yes, it definelty has another edge to it productionwise. I could pinpoint the skydancer sound among 100 others, dont think i could do that with fiction. This said, i do NOT want the new stuff to sound like skydancer... just not overproduced.

Sorry i was a bit unclear on that part, what i meant was that theres alot of keyboardists that can play and that true quality lies in the writing, and i havent really understood who actually writes it.
However, i happen to know that they do have a keybordist but Stanne claims in several interviews that Jivarp writes a lot of the keyboradparts.

Taliesin - Reckon i can show up at the gig in stockholm or will I be lynched?

 

[Taliesin]

Make sure no one recognises you and you'll be fine

 

[Matse]

So Stanne said in in an interview and now you ask us if it is true? :zombie:
Believe me nothing Stanne ever said is true. Dark Tranquillity always joke. (Please don't post here Plintus. I don't want your signature in here.)

The production is just a matter of taste. I think production is great on the older DT albums and the newer ones although it is different every time (fanboyishness ftw).

If everyone got banned for criticizing the band of the forum the In Flames forum would be empty.

 

[Villain]

I can see where you are coming from, but I completely disagree. The production on Fiction is excellent with all the instruments (yes, even the bass) clearly audible all throughout the album. The guitars might not sound very organic, true, but overall the album is far from overproduced, in my opinion. The keyboards especially sound very organic and unique to me.

And nevertheless the production makes Fiction sound very different from the previous two albums, even though some people still claim it is too similar to them. Actually, my theory is that the people complaining about the similarity between Fiction and Character / Damage Done were actually waiting for another album just like them and were disappointed by how vastly Fiction differs from them.

However, i happen to know that they do have a keybordist but Stanne claims in several interviews that Jivarp writes a lot of the keyboradparts.

Yes, just like Henriksson wrote a lot of the guitar-parts back when he was the bassist and probably writes some of the bass-parts now that he is the guitarist. Songwriting in DT has always been a group-effort, with different people providing different parts, riffs and what have you for each song and the whole band then going over the parts, changing and arranging them together.

Anyways, by reading the song-credits, it seems obvious that both Jivarp and Brändström write some of the keyboard-parts, while Brändström is the one who chooses the sounds and executes them on the album (and of course live). On Fiction, Jivarp is credited for 4 songs (The Lesser Faith, Icipher, Misery's Crown, The Mundane and the Magic) and Brändström for 2 (Icipher, Misery's Crown); and I'm pretty sure their writing for those songs was done by keyboard. As for the rest of the songs, I'd guess it is just Brändström playing parts first written by Henriksson or Sundin for guitar.

Anyways, I think this is a refreshingly interesting topic and I'm sure the moderator agrees. Just like you said, there's no reason to lock any thread where the actual music of Dark Tranquillity is discussed and I'm certain this thread was never in danger of being locked.

-Villain

 

[The River Dragon]

Stanne also claims that Martin and Martin B are the main songwriters of the band...
I remember that my brother disliked the drums on Fiction...I don't know why... personally I love the sound

 

[marduk1507]

I dont agree that Fiction has a sterile sound, its quite organic and fresh to my ears. What I do agree with though, is the part about the bass. I totally love the parts where Niklassons bass bridges some parts and its clearly audible, and I would have liked it, if this had been possible to maintain throughout the whole record, like for example in the main riff of Blind at Heart.

 

[Salamurhaaja]

I'm certain this thread was never in danger of being locked.

-Villain

Oh but I had not replied yet

In any case, I don't quite see the whole issue with this "too clean production"
bullcrap, I mean, sure, back in the early 90s it was so tr00 and cool.

These days I'd take a well produced album over any tr00 album that was recorded
in an empty potato cellar, insulated with trashcan lids (aka first 3 Barathrums) or
anything that tries to sound like that, which seems to be some new trend now.
"Gotta sound like back in the day cos then people think we are tr00 again!"

Personally I like Fiction more than Damage Done and nearly as much as Character.

 

[Hatebreeder]

I'm not a big fan of most of DT's newer material, but Fiction was moderately interesting. At least they have not sold out and become trendy like their counterparts In Flames. I think they have lost a lot of their songwriting ability, though. When comparing Fiction to a classic such as The Gallery, you can definitely see the drop in creativity.

 

[stardrowned]

Why do In Flames have to be mentioned every time?

I quite agree about the production a bit, the drums sound rather like a drum machine instead.

 

[Siren]

When comparing Fiction to a classic such as The Gallery, you can definitely see the drop in creativity.

I'm not sure i agree with you. I'll try to put it in the best way i can.

The Gallery - pretty creative as a whole, with most songs being in approximately the same level (some, of course, like "Lethe" more creative than others).

Fiction - most songs are lower in creativity than the average Gallery level, but "Inside The Particle Storm" exceeds that level a lot.

So, i'm not sure which album wins the creativity contest in my mind, i think i'd put them in the same level.

 

[Hatebreeder]

I'm not sure i agree with you. I'll try to put it in the best way i can.

The Gallery - pretty creative as a whole, with most songs being in approximately the same level (some, of course, like "Lethe" more creative than others).

Fiction - most songs are lower in creativity than the average Gallery level, but "Inside The Particle Storm" exceeds that level a lot.

So, i'm not sure which album wins the creativity contest in my mind, i think i'd put them in the same level.

I see what you mean, but I think The Gallery has an overall higher average of excellent songwriting. A few highlights in Fiction isn't enough to convince me otherwise.

 

[Killermik]

The Gallery - pretty creative as a whole, with most songs being in approximately the same level (some, of course, like "Lethe" more creative than others).

Fiction - most songs are lower in creativity than the average Gallery level, but "Inside The Particle Storm" exceeds that level a lot.

Let's marry!

There is something we must keep in mind : Fiction is a new album. So we have a different vision of it than the one we will have in 10 years like the one we have with The Gallery, when we will have listened to it a lot more. It took me like 3 years to really love Damage Done and I still have hopes I will really love Character one day. I already like Fiction a lot and I love some of the songs (Inside, Misery's Crown for exemple) so it is a very good sign for me.

 

[Siren]

Let's marry!

Is it official?

There is something we must keep in mind : Fiction is a new album. So we have a different vision of it than the one we will have in 10 years like the one we have with The Gallery, when we will have listened to it a lot more.

I agree to that as well. And not because i don't want you to take your proposal back.

I did like Damage Done instantly and still love it to this day, but i still haven't gotten into Character yet and i don't know if i ever will. But i already know Fiction is a good album, i'm not into it entirely yet like with the old albums, but i do love some of the songs very much.

 

[Killermik]

Is it official?

Dark Tranquillity's fans never joke!

 

[Kenneth R.]

I think the production is amazing

 

[Siren]

Dark Tranquillity's fans never joke!

i mean <3

 

[marduk1507]

There is something we must keep in mind : Fiction is a new album. So we have a different vision of it than the one we will have in 10 years like the one we have with The Gallery, when we will have listened to it a lot more. It took me like 3 years to really love Damage Done and I still have hopes I will really love Character one day.

Wise words. I am exactly in the same situation with DD and Character. The only difference is that I already really like a considerable portion of Fiction, and I hope I will like the rest as well.