Production on fiction + plus songwriting

Fiction is nothing like The Gallery, The Gallery is just epic, I don't think they can make another one. Fiction, however, is probably the best out of all the new albums. I like most of the songs, it's a great album. My least favorite track is probably Inside The Particle Storm (yes, I know Siren :p). I hate that "insaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayde the paaaaaartikaaaaaaaaaaal stooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorm" thing, it really bores the hell out of me. There are also a couple of other dt songs with the same thing. It's like not knowing what lyrics to put in the chorus, so they just make this "opera" thing instead.
 
I can kind of see why someone would say Fiction was overproduced but I strongly disagree. To me, every element sounded loud, sharp, and clear. Niklasson's bass lines don't stand out because that's not his style of playing, unlike Henrikson in the old DT where he was almost always doing something interesting underneath the guitar lines.

The Gallery and Fiction are entirely different beasts. Comparing the two is pretty difficult. The Gallery was wild, untamed, emotive, and intensely melodic whereas Fiction is much more about controlled emotion, down-tuned subtle brutality, although it certainly does have its intense and emotive moments.

I think the issue you are raising sunffcarl has actually more to do with the songwriting than with the production. The only albums I didn't dig the production on were Skydancer and Projector.
 
Anita - Actually, after i posted the topic, i started thinking similar thoughts. That it perhaps was not the production that was the real issue, but the actual songwriting.

True about Henriksson, personally i wish that he would just stay put on the bass cuz i think hes an amazing bassplayer adn not quite as skilled with the guitar (or maye interesting) However, Nicklasson obviously has some kick-ass stuff in his fingers as well, some character, which he utilizes at certain passages, i would simply wish a that he would do it a bit more often!
 
any body think maybe the reason Character was so good and Fiction isnt as good, is maybe cuz of Fiction has a all new producer, who has never worked with them before? to me i think thats what kinda messed up the albulm.....Dt made a masterpeice without anybody helping them, which was fiction, and i think the only person able to make DT better was the guy who did projector and haven with them.....
 
Some may call me crazy, but I'm pretty confident that the production on Fiction is quite possibly my favorite production on any album of all time. It sounds absolutely ridiculous in my car (perfect metal speakers). Every instrument sounds great, particularly the drums.

When I get an album and I like it right away, I tend to get bored with it fairly quickly. I got Fiction a few days after it's release and I still love every second of it. It's kind of scary; I think I may like it more than The Gallery.
 
I know most people here worship fiction around here, i think its a great album but not nearly as interesting as for example the gallery... so i might just get banned for writing this =)

However, i am the only who thinks that the production is a bit too "clean"? I mean it sounds so pure that it gets a tad plain, looses energy and atmosphere. Somewhat like some of the tracks of the "exposures". I think it smells protool for fucking miles. Another flaw in the production is the fact that niklassons bassplaying is hardly present. In one of the few tracks that it is (NtNO) its fucking brilliant. It sort of pisses me off that he didnt get more space on the album. Looking forward hearing it live though!

On another while while im on the move, does anyone know who you are supposed to give credit to for the keybordplaying? As i understood it, Jivarp ( maybe hes actually the brain behind it all?=) writes most of the keyboard parts??

puss/ Calle

ps. Pls dont close the thread, i dont care if theres other threads dealing with similar stuff, as long as you alow threads like "WoW" and other shit, u should allow anything that has to with the actual music.ds


firstly, I'm suprised you assumed discussions like these would not be allowed here... Saying anything about DT is cool by me and I'm sure everyone else on this forum, even if it's negative (so long as it's not just balatant flaming, which this isn't). Anyway, nice thread.


I fully agree about the production and I think alot of melodic metal from Sweden at the moment is going down the same road of over producing albums. Sonic Syndicate, Soilwork, Scar Symmetry (why all the SS's?) and more all suffer from a similar over polished production. This could easily be to do with the intricacies of the frequencies met in the keyboard parts. It's very hard to include melodic synths in a metal track as furious as these if the production isn't very tidy. And sure, some black metal bands manage it, but they're only using choir 'Ahs' and synth strings... where Brandstrom seems to have an unending voice of VSTs.

The reason I don't mind the polished quality so much with DT is that the quality of the song writing really does shine through. I just wish they'd gone for a slightly grimmer angle on the guitars though.

Perhaps some of this comes down to it being self-produced. Everyone in the band wants their parts heard, so they do a really reserved and 'spaced out' production. A damn good production technically, but not perhaps the best it could have been if they'd have relaxed a little.

Seeing the material live is going to be a really interesting treat.
 
I agree with most of the ideas being said on this thread concerning DT music, the previous albums in contrast to the latest ones. Here's how I see it:
Music and poetry (songwriting) reflect the state of mind of the artist, and this state of mind is constantly changing, being affected by age, experience, and the general world state of mind.

Dark Tanquillity have evolved through the years from sounding raw (tr00) powerful, romantic (like a teenager dreaming and expressing his feelings in the most direct way).
Skydancer, Chaos, Gallery: raw anger / romantic.
Mind's I: is more experienced still very raw but goes darker, also romantic.

Projector: is depressed, sad, as if disappointed in many things about life...
Haven: is an extention of projector, anger is subdued and sadness still dominant..

Damage Done: is a continuation of the Mind's I, same raw dark dominant anger and rage, it is as if the artist/s here is rebelling against his own state of being, now that he is more aware of what angers him. It is also romantic.

Character: reflects today's world which is lacking magic and a dream. It is very detached, too deep and too personal it stopped even being personal at one point. The message and feeling are buried way deep that it is going to take the average listener a much longer time to appreciate (in comparison to the easier to understand Gallery).

Fiction: follows Character in the same line of thought but the musical structure is easier to decipher and relate to.

If you think of these albums as each a painting, then each one comes with a different color and mood. Don't forget that this band is singing about the times we live in and what effects our world has on us as individuals. We start off as dreamers wanting to conquer the world and suddenly we realize that we are so small, insignificant and vulnerable, our thinking changes and so does our ways of expressing it.

Someone mentioned earlier that there is a drop of creativity in DT's work, I think not: it is only a different mood of expression that's all. In psychology it is said that a human being goes through 4 stages when faced with something he/she doesn't like: Denial, Anger, Acceptance, Resignation. I think DT's work goes progressively from one state to another.

Technical differences: Artists like to exploit and take advantage of technical progress. What new sounds can be used, what new technology offers, not to mention the artists' growing abilities. DT have become very sophisticated in their music, the melodies and ideas, even the structure of the music is way more complex now that what we are used to in their previous work.

Remember how much time it took for us to get our ears tuned to early death metal? After 3 years I have finally started to appreciate Character, its technically artistic composition, its highly polished sound... Music is like wine, it takes time to sink in and be fully appreciated.

When you want anger you listen to the Gallery, and when you are in a state of apathy, Character brings you down even more, when you are feeling melancholy Projector fits the mood.

Character simply lacks character, it is impersonal, too objective, everything about it sounds machine made. It is precisely a state of apathy, lack of romance and magic. Fiction has more romance in it and is a little more human.
 
@Ghost in the ruins: great post, welcome to the board. nice to see a fresh point of view around here. :)
 
Ghost I agree with much of what you have to say, although to say that DT's music doesn't not involve much creativity and only "different moods" is too much of a stretch for me. There's no other band out there like them. Another aspect you touched on but didn't elaborate about is the band as a collection of individuals, which is where the important of line-up changes comes in (the departure of Johanson, the arrival of Brandstrom, and Henriksson's transition from bass to guitar come to mind). When you talked about the albums in terms of teenage anger and maturation etc I thought you were going to argue that the aging of the band is like a person growing up.

Great post.
 
@ anita job: Maybe I did not put it well, I meant by "Someone mentioned earlier that there is a drop of creativity in DT's work, I think not: it is only a different mood of expression that's all. In psychology it is said that a human being goes through 4 stages when faced with something he/she doesn't like: Denial, Anger, Acceptance, Resignation. I think DT's work goes progressively from one state to another." that it is creativity expressed through different moods and thoughts, all affected by world moods and the personal changing moods (of the members of the band and the band as one person growing up :)

@ rustyslacker: The Gallery does not ask existential questions like Character. The Gallery is full of rage and anger and fury, and Character is aggressive of course, but I get in a dark mood everytime I listen to it... maybe that's just me...
 
character, fiction, and we are the void all have super clean production quality; thats a good thing. i like being able to hear every single note and instrument clearly in a song. dont get me wrong i love all their old shit including septic broiler's songs, but it's much more enjoyable to listen to an album with the same quality as ficition as opposed to the quality on septic broiler. imagine if they did reversed those qualities: septic broiler would then sound amazing and youd hear fiction and be like, this sounds like shit, did they decide to record this on an answering machine in a garage?? as for people commenting on the newer song writing styles, the older albums like skyancer and gallery were more free-formed and creative, but they also sacrificed things such as catchyness and good composition. you can literally see how theyve progressed musically and compositionally in each album that they put out. it's basically the equivalent of starting a band with your friends at a young age and not knowing how to really play the instruments or write music, but just playing just to have fun and have jam sessions and record stuff and get lucky and create a good riff or song here and there. thats basically exactly what they did and their natural talent helped propel them as they became more musically experienced over the years. this is how a lot of bands are and how a lot of them develop and form, which is why all over the internet and at shows fans are always dissing a band's newest album or saying it's not as good as the old one and not being able to appreciate anything else they come up with. granted dt has drastically changed their sound over the years, i think you could argue that after things got stale with the mind's eye, they experimented with projector and haven and found out what they want to do with their music and where they want it to go. since damage done, they have had a pretty similar/consistent sound in their music, but are still able to make it unique and distinguished, which i think is the perfect achievement/evolution for a band. this is just my opinion obviously, so im welcoming some dissension especially because im sure there are a bunch of good points for the opposing argument as well