Programming drums : FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKKKKKKKKKKKKK

[Harry Hughes]

I've got a bazillion riffs and musical ideas in my head and I just wanna write a whole lot of songs.
But the fucking drums man, the goddamn fucking drums.
I go to start programming drums and then I just want to go outside and start breaking things.
I have no idea how to make it sound like musical drumming and worse still, I get so fucking frustrated I end up quitting the project before it's even 1/100th complete, so effectively I just never end up writing full songs.
I try reading some threads around here, old threads, about programming advice and patterns for drums and how a real drummer would go about it, I try listening to my favorite drummers and seeing what I can pick up with my ears, but I can't get my head around it at all. It either just doesn't make sense and I can't understand it (the reading, or what I'm listening to) or I just have no idea how to get the drum patterns I hear in my head down into reality.

I just wanna finish a goddamn song, post it up here or at other forums and say "Guys, check out this shit I wrote, I wanna know if you dig it", but I just can't, can't get a single complete song finished just because of goddamn drum programming
I hear some of the drum programming around here, like JeffTD for example and think "Fuck, who do these muthafuckers do this so well, without feeling the need to pull out hairs from their scalp?"
Am I the only guy around here with this issue?

 

[HeadCrusher]

post some of your programmed drums.

 

[Harry Hughes]

I don't have any clips at all.
Last time I had something going, I just deleted the whole project in frustration and anger because of the fucking drum programming

 

[updog]

I can definitely see why it could feel hard to do well, but I just can't relate to the feeling at all. I've always found it easy, but that's because I'm a drummer.

Try listening to music and paying attention to what the drummer plays, to his/her fills etc. Get to know the basic drumkit setup and which drums and cymbals are normally played at which parts.

 

[Harry Hughes]

I can definitely see why it could feel hard to do well, but I just can't relate to the feeling at all. I've always found it easy, but that's because I'm a drummer.

Try listening to music and paying attention to what the drummer plays, to his/her fills etc. Get to know the basic drumkit setup and which drums and cymbals are normally played at which parts.

The thing is, I've already done that, the listening and all. It just doesn't sink in at all.
Hell, when I get on a drum kit, I even know how to play basic 4/4, 5/4 and 6/8 beats because my sister taught me how to play a simple 4/4 pattern and from there I learnt 5/4 and 6/8.
But when I go to program drums, it's just "WTF I can't do this!"

 

[drew_drummer]

What kind of music is it? Maybe find a drummer to record some midi parts for you.

 

[aberration]

Don't try to program the drums as finished tracks the first time through. Put down enough to mark the rhythm, then beef it up when you've got your structure established and riffs recorded.

 

[JMarz]

I've got a bazillion riffs and musical ideas in my head and I just wanna write a whole lot of songs.
But the fucking drums man, the goddamn fucking drums.
I go to start programming drums and then I just want to go outside and start breaking things.
I have no idea how to make it sound like musical drumming and worse still, I get so fucking frustrated I end up quitting the project before it's even 1/100th complete, so effectively I just never end up writing full songs.
I try reading some threads around here, old threads, about programming advice and patterns for drums and how a real drummer would go about it, I try listening to my favorite drummers and seeing what I can pick up with my ears, but I can't get my head around it at all. It either just doesn't make sense and I can't understand it (the reading, or what I'm listening to) or I just have no idea how to get the drum patterns I hear in my head down into reality.

I just wanna finish a goddamn song, post it up here or at other forums and say "Guys, check out this shit I wrote, I wanna know if you dig it", but I just can't, can't get a single complete song finished just because of goddamn drum programming
I hear some of the drum programming around here, like JeffTD for example and think "Fuck, who do these muthafuckers do this so well, without feeling the need to pull out hairs from their scalp?"
Am I the only guy around here with this issue?

No.. No you are not.

*Pat.* I feel your pain, I often find myself doing the same thing and either giving up whatever I'm working on, or asking someone else to do drums for me >_<

 

[grywolf627]

You're not alone bro. Programming drums are the bane of my musical existence. I hate it with a white hot passion. Sometimes I'll ask my keyboardist/ex-drummer friend...really really nicely, to program them for me when he's not busy with his own projects.

I've got a musical suite project I've had mostly composed in my head for several years now. But the drums keep holding me back. I have no idea what time signature the stuff is even in. I just play by ear. I can't get my head around that type of stuff.

 

[Sacha]

Start with some MIDI loops (Toontrack has a bunch) and adjust from there. Great way to see how awesome drumming looks in MIDI too.

 

[JeffTD]

I do offer drum programming as a service.

 

[FarBeyondMetal]

Why not pay someone who is good at it to do a song or two? Then maybe if you study it hard enough you will have decent idea on how to get there yourself. I'm not advertising btw, it's just something I've thought of doing myself as I probably suck at programming drums worse than you

 

[Fragle]

very fucking true.
i also hate the time consuming aspect of it. you have a nice series of riffs in your head, completely with drums etc, record the guitar lines, and by the time you're not even halfway through the first riff programming the drums it seems as if you've already lost track of where you were trying to go.

there's two things that i found extremely helpful in the past:
- get someone who's good at programming drums, preferably a friend, and just copy some of the stuff he's doing. a lot of my basic fill (placeholder) ideas were stolen from a friend of mine who's shitting out songs all the time. it's good to have some go-to patterns that you can program on the fly without thinking about it.
- try and play some of the ideas with a real drummer. it's amazing to see what kinda stuff they come up with for your riffs. i tend to have a certain idea of how things should sound when writing riffs, but every time i'm actually playing them with a drummer they come up with the most awkward (to a guitar player) stuff that totally change the mood of it, in a good way! obviously you should try to remember what he's playing and tab it out & add to your own repertoire.

 

[GarethSE]

I do offer drum programming as a service.

SUCK MY COCK, CORPORATE WHORE





(.......... <3 you really babe)

 

[grywolf627]

I do offer drum programming as a service.

I'll keep you in mind Jeff...when my friend can't be bothered to help.

 

[muckypup1]

I've got a bazillion riffs and musical ideas in my head and I just wanna write a whole lot of songs.
But the fucking drums man, the goddamn fucking drums.
I go to start programming drums and then I just want to go outside and start breaking things.
I have no idea how to make it sound like musical drumming and worse still, I get so fucking frustrated I end up quitting the project before it's even 1/100th complete, so effectively I just never end up writing full songs.
I try reading some threads around here, old threads, about programming advice and patterns for drums and how a real drummer would go about it, I try listening to my favorite drummers and seeing what I can pick up with my ears, but I can't get my head around it at all. It either just doesn't make sense and I can't understand it (the reading, or what I'm listening to) or I just have no idea how to get the drum patterns I hear in my head down into reality.

I just wanna finish a goddamn song, post it up here or at other forums and say "Guys, check out this shit I wrote, I wanna know if you dig it", but I just can't, can't get a single complete song finished just because of goddamn drum programming
I hear some of the drum programming around here, like JeffTD for example and think "Fuck, who do these muthafuckers do this so well, without feeling the need to pull out hairs from their scalp?"
Am I the only guy around here with this issue?

Your not alone man, I rarely get any of my ideas down because of the drum programming, when I start programming them, I just want to punch the fucking wall and shit. I just can't get "into" it like a real drummer could, so my drum tracks always sound like a robot, or I don't actually know what to program

 

[Damian B]

I'm a drummer and I hate programming drums. I end up usually programming simple beats, then going back and beefing them up later.

 

[Nebulous]

Your not alone man, I rarely get any of my ideas down because of the drum programming, when I start programming them, I just want to punch the fucking wall and shit. I just can't get "into" it like a real drummer could, so my drum tracks always sound like a robot, or I don't actually know what to program

Once I stopped trying to program drums I was able to finish a song lol. I just record guitars to cubase with a click, copy paste sections to make a structure (or play them again I can be bothered). I plan to let a drummer work out the drums at a later stage.

I still like to hear the drums in my head as i write, but prefer to leave the drumming to someone who knows how to do it better than me.

 

[Morgan C]

Dunno, I find it easy. What do you find hard, making the beats, or making it sound realistic?

It can sometimes be better for me to program the drums, because I can hear what they sound like objectively straight away. On the other hand, I'm a lot more creative actually playing.. so I'll often play, record myself, and then program THAT (assuming I can't do real drums for whatever reason). That way I'm just placing notes and I can edit stuff. If you've got a mic or two that might be an option?

As far as realism, just fuck it til you finish the song. But it honestly doesn't take that long. A rock song with some ghost notes and fills and stuff might take an hour, hour and a half max, doing everything and making it sound realistic. I've made a number of posts on how to get stuff sounding realistic, so if you're having trouble, have a look through those. Also, don't worry too much how it sounds in solo, a lot of the fakeness goes away in the mix.

I've passed off a few clips on here as real drums that no-one picked up on as being programmed. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/324723/All Hands Down - Dance 'Til Sunrise (192kpbs).mp3 was programmed [this took about an hour and a half TOTAL].. and then I gave the MIDI to someone else who ran it thru MF, so I barely adjusted any velocities. There are like.. ghost notes and hard hits, and the cymbals are either hard or soft. But for this style, you really can't tell. The only hard bits of drum programming (making it sound realistic) are snare rolls and hihat patterns.

Post some clips and we can help more tho


edit: any clips of what Jeff has programmed? I've heard a number of people talk about his skills but I've never heard a clip, apart from that now-semi-famous DI clip.

 

[cloy26]

I find it really easy and pretty fun to program drums, as I am not a true drummer so I will come up with stuff that is very different than my drummer would.

Just remember to use a hi hat/cymbal steadily throughout the rhythm, snare *normally* falls on 2 and 4 OR just on 3. Obviously there are a ton of exceptions, but that is pretty much the basics.

Use hi hat on 1, 2, 3, 4
Snare on 2 and 4, or only on 3
Kick almost always on 1 and any combination.

Just start easy and build your way up.