Quality DI signal

B

badmotor

Member
Sep 5, 2011
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HUGE apologies if this has been covered before and I couldn't find the thread, but I am wondering how to get the best quality DI signal going in.

I am currently using a Focusrite Saffire 6 usb (supposed to be quite good preamps) and I am plugging straight into the instrument preamp on that - my question is: could I get a better quality sound using a good DI box in front of that? If it isn't going to be much improvement, I wouldn't go down that road - but if it really is, then it would be well worth it.

I don't know how many people in here are using the same interface, but I am only really happy with my sound when I have brand new 'just been put on' strings. After a couple of hours of tracking, I find they are already too dull and starting to lose valuable harmonic content and have to change them again. I wonder if part of this is also the 'dullness' of using a more consumer priced interface.

Thoughts?
 
Thanks for that.

Hmmm... I'm also wondering why the manual for my interface doesn't list the input impedance specs for the instrument in. I wonder if it is a bit low for passive pickups (which I am using) and therefore why I am thinking it sounds dull. :erk:
 
JakeAC5253 said:
Short answer, a DI box would be a large improvement.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I'm not so sure.

As far as I know, all of the Saffire line have the same preamps? I have a Pro 40 and used to have 5 well revered DI boxes (Countryman, Radial, SansAmp, etc.) and the difference between them and plugging directly into the inputs of my Pro 40 were so minimal, that it wasn't worth keeping any of them. I sold them all but my Bass Driver and bought some nice mics.
 
That's probably the same conversations I've seen all around the net - the "You need a decent DI" calls, directly followed by the "Yeah I'm not so sure, I tried that and it didn't make much difference" answers.
 
MatrixClaw said:
Honestly, I'm not so sure.

As far as I know, all of the Saffire line have the same preamps? I have a Pro 40 and used to have 5 well revered DI boxes (Countryman, Radial, SansAmp, etc.) and the difference between them and plugging directly into the inputs of my Pro 40 were so minimal, that it wasn't worth keeping any of them. I sold them all but my Bass Driver and bought some nice mics.
Click to expand...

Active pickups?

badmotor said:
That's probably the same conversations I've seen all around the net - the "You need a decent DI" calls, directly followed by the "Yeah I'm not so sure, I tried that and it didn't make much difference" answers.
Click to expand...

If you value your tone, a DI box is a no brainer. What you are doing to record your guitar is run it into a preamp to amplify it and then digital conversion to be recorded. Your guitar needs to see an extremely high input impedance in whatever device it is plugged into, somewhere around 470k - 1M or above. A mic pre is used to seeing mics, which have a much lower output impedance (in the range of ohms) and typical input impedances for mic pres range from ohms to a few kilohms. A mic pre is not designed for guitars, plain and simple. What the DI box does is convert the impedance by showing your guitar an extremely high impedance, and the mic pre an extremely low impedance. It is possible that when you plug your guitar into the mic pre, the input circuit automatically switches to something else to better fit the guitar, but I would still go the route of DI box then mic preamp. It's tried and true and it works and sounds good. The fact that you are having issues in doing this should speak volumes.
 
JakeAC5253 said:
Active pickups?



If you value your tone, a DI box is a no brainer. What you are doing to record your guitar is run it into a preamp to amplify it and then digital conversion to be recorded. Your guitar needs to see an extremely high input impedance in whatever device it is plugged into, somewhere around 470k - 1M or above. A mic pre is used to seeing mics, which have a much lower output impedance (in the range of ohms) and typical input impedances for mic pres range from ohms to a few kilohms. A mic pre is not designed for guitars, plain and simple. What the DI box does is convert the impedance by showing your guitar an extremely high impedance, and the mic pre an extremely low impedance. It is possible that when you plug your guitar into the mic pre, the input circuit automatically switches to something else to better fit the guitar, but I would still go the route of DI box then mic preamp. It's tried and true and it works and sounds good. The fact that you are having issues in doing this should speak volumes.
Click to expand...

Cool - no, I get that... but the Saffire supposedly has High Z inputs for instruments (there's an INST switch, which I presume changes the impedance) as well as line-in and mic input. I find it weird they don't list the impedance in the specs, while most other companies will state if it is 1Mohm or something. It makes me a bit suspicious - I have emailed them and am waiting for a response.

This is the most info I can get:

Microphone Inputs 1-2
• Frequency Response: 20Hz - 20kHz +/- 0.1 dB
• Gain Range: 12dB to 60dB
• THD+N: 0.0025% (measured at 1kHz with a 20Hz/22kHz bandpass filter)
• Noise EIN: 120dB
• Input Impedance: 2k Ohms
Line Inputs 1-2
• Frequency Response: 20Hz - 20kHz +/- 0.1dB
• Gain Range: -10dB to +36dB
&#8226; THD+N: < 0.0025% (measured with 0dBFS input and 20Hz/22kHz bandpass filter)
&#8226; Noise: -90dBu (20Hz/22kHz bandpass filter)
&#8226; Input Impedance: >10k Ohm
Instrument Inputs 1-2
&#8226; Frequency Response: 20Hz - 20kHz +/- 0.1dB
&#8226; Gain Range: +13dB to +60dB
&#8226; THD+N: 0.0025% (measured with 0dBu input and 20Hz/22kHz bandpass filter)
&#8226; Noise: -87dBu (20Hz/22kHz bandpass filter)
 
Well,

looks like I was barking up the wrong tree blaming the interface. Focusrite tells me the input is 10Mohm. :err:
 
Out of curiosity, which passive pickups are you using? I've read that the Saffire 6 clips passive signals even with the pad engaged.

'Dullness,' as you stated, could be from old strings, but could also be from a bunch of other factors. Try changing pickup height, pick material/gauge/attack, instrument cable (brand/length). I'm curious to hear your findings.

Also, the Pro 40 does not have the same pres as the Saffire 6, so MatrixClaw's experience, in this case, is not relevant. I bet a Countryman in front would help (sorry, can't speak from experience).
 
Different preamps from the Pro huh?

I'm using the stock pickups on my Yamaha SG1000 - couldn't find out any info on them. It's actually a pretty bright guitar for something Les Paul-ish. I think I will focus on all the little things: strings/pickup height/cable etc and see how I go.

Oh - and I'm using the pad engaged, and I get a good signal with the gain on 3/3.5. I've read about people not being able to get it low enough, but it's not been a problem for me.
 
mili9152 said:
Also, the Pro 40 does not have the same pres as the Saffire 6, so MatrixClaw's experience, in this case, is not relevant.
Click to expand...

Really? I've heard it said many times and was under the impression that all of the Saffire line has the same preamps. Maybe that's only true for the firewire interfaces?

Interesting...




*edit*

Straight from Focusrite's website:

The Focusrite Saffire 6 USB is a two-in/four-out USB audio interface. It uses the same award-winning Focusrite mic preamps as the rest of the Saffire range. This makes it the best value, and best sounding interface in its class.
Click to expand...
 
Well, I thought we were mainly talking about Instrument in, as the OP was claiming dullness when plugging into the Hi-Z input. If you compare the tech specs of the instrument in on the Saffire 6 vs the Pro 40, they are clearly different. For example, the SNR is 4dB higher on the Pro 40 (also taken from the Focusrite site). Even the microphone inputs have different specifications too, so their claim is not accurate.
 
OK,

just to follow up with this: I think my problem was a couple of sets of dud strings. Weird, they seem to go dull really fast - but the set I put on the other day is still sounding great so I don't know what was going on there.

Just shows how important fresh strings are to DI'ing/using amp sims.
 
How do you connect a DI BOX to your computer? I have a toneport ux2 with an 1 mohm instrument input, so i should be fine? But what if i wanted to get a countryman 85 how would i connect it to my computer?
 
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