Question for Stormo/Dead Winter and other mid-evil history smart people.

[Det Som Engang Var]

I know this is absurdly off topic, but when the board is this dead, does it really matter?

I wanted to ask questions about %oman law, concerning the senate, consuls, and the like. Would you guys be willing to field some of those questions in this thread for me?

I've done plenty of reading over the last couple of years on Google, but this is about things that still confuse me.

 

[El Stormo]

Sure, ask away. Can't guarantee I'll be able to answer, but sure.

 

[lorinc]

At least, that would bring some entertainment to the forum.

 

[neal]

i think ole Derek has some fancy degrees in this subject, but he really dont post here no mo.

 

[Talking Backwards]

Mid-Evil? As opposed to Low-Evil, High-Evil and Am-I-Evil?

Medieval.

 

[Det Som Engang Var]

Basically, I don't understand the checks and balances between The Senate, Consuls, and the Tribune of The Plebs/People.

I know the tribune has veto power, and the Consuls can veto notions proposed by the senate right? Can someone elaborate on this for me, and how these three balance each other out? Examples would be welcome.

Also, it's my understanding only Roman citizens could become legionaires, right? Plebians weren't considered citizens right? Thinking of the HBO series, was it just lowborn guys like Titus Pullo? Would nobility ever join?

And "Imperitor" (SP?) In times of war, the consul has unlimited unchecked power over the legions? What about the other consul who is on his "off month"? I know there's a general, how far above a Legate/Legatus is he? Could a Legate command an entire legion, or only the general?

Thanks, guys.

 

[El Stormo]

Basically, I don't understand the checks and balances between The Senate, Consuls, and the Tribune of The Plebs/People.

I know the tribune has veto power, and the Consuls can veto notions proposed by the senate right? Can someone elaborate on this for me, and how these three balance each other out? Examples would be welcome.

I don't recall much of Roman political structures, but one thing I do know is that the Empire had two Consuls, simply because they could keep each other in check. The Senate approved laws, not the Consuls, as I recall.

Also, it's my understanding only Roman citizens could become legionaires, right? Plebians weren't considered citizens right? Thinking of the HBO series, was it just lowborn guys like Titus Pullo? Would nobility ever join?

Only Roman citizens were legionaries. The Roman army often employed irregulars though, those were called "Auxilia", and they were composed of 'allied' (read: occupied) armies. They usually fulfilled the role of light cavalry or ranged battery. Theoretically, the heavy infantry (i.e. legionary) role was for Roman nationals only, but near the end, this restriction was, as I recall, more guideline than hard rule, given the vast shortage of troops. Irregulars who served in the auxiliary for 20 years were granted Roman citizenship and a small plot of land.

Plebeians, while lower class, were Roman citizens. Plebeians, Equites and Patricians were the lower, middle and upper classes of Roman citizens. Think peasants, knights and "true" nobles. Equites usually occupied decurion or centurion roles, and were the only ones allowed to ride horses ("Eques" literally means "rider"). Patricians did not serve in the army as I recall, and the military's higher leaders were generals and politicians equally.

And "Imperitor" (SP?) In times of war, the consul has unlimited unchecked power over the legions? What about the other consul who is on his "off month"? I know there's a general, how far above a Legate/Legatus is he? Could a Legate command an entire legion, or only the general?

"Dictator" was the name for the leader of the entire Empire and its military in times of crisis. Julius Caesar was one for a time, if memory serves. However, how he was chosen or what the other consul did in the meantime, I cannot say.

Mid-Evil? As opposed to Low-Evil, High-Evil and Am-I-Evil?

Medieval.

And in fact, the Western Roman Empire existed in the Ancient (Classical) Age, not the Medieval Era.

 

[lorinc]

Only Roman citizens were legionaries. The Roman army often employed irregulars though, those were called "Auxilia", and they were composed of 'allied' (read: occupied) armies. They usually fulfilled the role of light cavalry or ranged battery. Theoretically, the heavy infantry (i.e. legionary) role was for Roman nationals only, but near the end, this restriction was, as I recall, more guideline than hard rule, given the vast shortage of troops. Irregulars who served in the auxiliary for 20 years were granted Roman citizenship and a small plot of land.

Plebeians, while lower class, were Roman citizens. Plebeians, Equites and Patricians were the lower, middle and upper classes of Roman citizens. Think peasants, knights and "true" nobles. Equites usually occupied decurion or centurion roles, and were the only ones allowed to ride horses ("Eques" literally means "rider"). Patricians did not serve in the army as I recall, and the military's higher leaders were generals and politicians equally.

If I recall correctly, you had to be rich to enter the legion because you had to buy and maintain your equipment on your own, which was very costly.

And in fact, the Western Roman Empire existed in the Ancient (Classical) Age, not the Medieval Era.

Yeah, we date the beginning of the middle age to the fall of the Western Roman Empire (476). But you have to admit it is fairly Euro-centric.

 

[Det Som Engang Var]

Thanks very much, guys. Much appreciated.

And yeah, I knew it wasn't considered midieval, I just didn't know the name of what came before that.

 

[El Stormo]

If I recall correctly, you had to be rich to enter the legion because you had to buy and maintain your equipment on your own, which was very costly.

Not sure where you got that from. It's possible but it'd be the first I've ever heard of it.

Yeah, we date the beginning of the middle age to the fall of the Western Roman Empire (476). But you have to admit it is fairly Euro-centric.

Yes, but how can it be anything but Euro-centric? Rome was Europe, and it's not like the world was any bigger than Europe at the time.

And yeah, I knew it wasn't considered midieval, I just didn't know the name of what came before that.

"Medieval" and depending on whether or not you see the entire pre-Middle Ages as "Ancient" or make the division between "Ancient" and "Classical", the time of the Western Roman Empire was Ancient or Classical, but "Ancient Age" is the official name for the time.

Roughly it's like this:

Pre-history (until 3000BC) - Ancient Era (3000BC - 476 AD) - Medieval Era (476 AD - 1453 AD) - Renaissance (1453 AD - 1789 AD) - Industrial Age (1789 AD - 1914 AD) - Modern Age (1914 AD - present).

The Ancient Age began with the (estimated) advent of the Egyptian Empire, the Medieval Era began with the "fall"* of the Western Roman Empire, the Renaissance began with the capture of Constantinople and the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire, the Industrial Age began with the storming of the Bastille (i.e. the French Revolution), and the Modern Age began with World War I. These are all agreed-upon time points although of course history changes slowly and not just with one turning point.

Some people insist on dividing the Ancient Era into the Ancient and Classical periods, and the Medieval Era into the Dark Ages and Late Middle Ages, and there are loads of pseudo-historians who are just dying to coin terms for all kinds of periods in the Modern Age (Interbellum, Recent Age, Information Age, etc), but the above division is the "official" one.



* The Western Roman Empire didn't fall as such, it wasn't a bloody, fiery war or anything, but due to unchecked immigration and failing of central authorities, the WRE simply gradually stopped being an entity. 476 AD is the year when the last Roman Emperor, Romulus Augustulus, was deposed by the Germans at the age of 16.

 

[WhiteBeastofWotan]

At a certain point breaking up the time periods into eras starts feeling similar to forcing bands into subgenre's of metal.

As Anglo-centric as it seems, though, I do like using 1066 as the end of the early medieval period (don't say Dark Ages, thats dumb) because not only does it mark the year of the last great norse defeat at Stamford Bridge, but also the year that England stopped being a Germanic culture and became decidedly Norman-French.

I know relatively very little about Ancient Rome prior to the Migration Period to contribute well here, sadly. Start a thread about shit from the 5th C to 11th and I'll be all over that!

 

[Det Som Engang Var]

I shall!