question for the band/producer/engineer about the latest album's mastering

steeler6

New Metal Member
Jul 16, 2011
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In my opinion, the lastest album's audio is affected badly by the loudness war. Because Symphony X is a fantastic progressive metal band, there are a lot of dynamics in their music that could benefit from more dynamic mastering when it comes to getting the album on CD. I feel that older albums sound great because when you turn them up you can really feel the punch of the drums and the gut twisting edge of the guitars, whereas newer released albums you have to turn down because they are so compressed and loud that the audio clips and just sounds very squashed. Here's a short demonstration;



I will be doing a presentation in the future for some colleagues and would like to gather some opinions of fellow metal fans/musicians/producers. Thank you for your time!
 
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Yep, i think we can all agree on that. it´s been a recurring discussion between sound engineers, at least the ones i know.
but i think it´s only a trend, and since music lives by trends then the sound engineers must do this even if they dont feel its the best way to master an album.
 
Paradise Lost definitely suffers really badly. Had a look at those waveform things with a friend (in comparison to V) back in 2007 and it was ridiculous. And you can hear it too, no doubt about it.
 
Are you sure that the sound engineers are not merely trying to lower the quantization noise by increasing the dynamic range for the vast majority of the energy in the signal? On one hand you have people complaining about the loudness war, and on the other you have people complaining about reduced audio quality because of signal digitization (partially although not entirely caused by quantization noise). My old ears aren't sensitive enough to hear either end of the tradeoff (probably never could because of listening to music too loud when I was 13), so I'd be interested to find out if the anti-quantization-noise people are also the anti-loudness-war people, and if they recognize the tradeoff.
 
hmm. That's different imo. We're not demanding zero compression. Compression in mastering is important and should be used, just not as much as its being used.

Here's an example: Evolution's solo section VS Set the World on Fire's solo section. Both are musically similar, both are "loud enough", but look at the dynamics:

evolutionSolo_VS_stwofSolo.jpg


Notice how, in the former, the music is loud (maximized) enough yet still has more room to "breathe"; whilst the latter is just saturated as much as possible with not much dynamics left.

Now take a look at Damnation Game's solo section:

damnationgamesolo.jpg


The dynamics are there, BUT clearly it is too quite (not maximized enough).
 
Are you sure that the sound engineers are not merely trying to lower the quantization noise by increasing the dynamic range for the vast majority of the energy in the signal? On one hand you have people complaining about the loudness war, and on the other you have people complaining about reduced audio quality because of signal digitization (partially although not entirely caused by quantization noise). My old ears aren't sensitive enough to hear either end of the tradeoff (probably never could because of listening to music too loud when I was 13), so I'd be interested to find out if the anti-quantization-noise people are also the anti-loudness-war people, and if they recognize the tradeoff.
You bring up a good point.

But the difference between compression and normalization is that the former reduces dynamic range so that the latter, which orients the highest peak at a defined level (usually 0dB or just under), raises globally the level of the whole track by that same shift amount while preserving dynamics.

In other words, if your track is peaking at -1dB, you can normalize it to 0dB, raising the gain of the whole track by 1dB and preserve dynamics. Or, you can compress and limit the peaks so for example, it peaks at -8dB. Now, you've got 8dB of normalization potential.

This is of course all assuming you're in the camp that believes mixing really hot is a good thing. There's a growing trend that believes the joy of -18, -14, and -20dB are the golden spots for mixing, depending on content. Those guys will tell you that the user has a volume knob for a reason and mixing hotter for gain is self-defeating. They'll also tell you that with modern 24bit or better sound, using all of the bits for a sample is not necessarily gaining you anything audible. It's no longer necessary to track hot, compress, and punch the gain even further. Traditional analog workflow is returning because it is now achievable in the digital domain, with great results.

Do SX's latest releases suffer from loudness war attitude? Yes. Metal in general suffers more than other genres because being "loud" is an inherently preferential characteristic to the style of music it represents. Add to that the typical metal song structure, wherein dynamics are eschewed for a more in-your-face-all-the-time sound, and quickly it becomes apparent why after compression, there is nothing left but pink noise.

Distorted guitars + constant riffs with few quieter passages + "loud rules!" = bad production recipe, with a number of very notable exceptions of great sounding metal albums.