Randall iso cab review/Isolating my iso cab

[Radd]

Randall iso cab review

I now have the Randall iso cab. It came already treated well with plenty of auralex inside. It's not quiet. It muffles the sound a little. With my 100 watt krankenstein I put the volume on 3 and master on 2 and still I knew at that level that it was to loud. I stuck a 57 and then an i5 in there and definitely noticed an improvement in my recorded tone. I'm under the assumption that a condenser will make it sound much better. It was rattling big time. I guess just from loud sound vibrations, I'm not sure but it didn't seem to pic up on the mics that I could tell so far. If that's the case then maybe the speaker is moving/pushing air at that volume? I feel I still need to get it louder. Would like to at least have both the volume and master on 5.
I believe it's a 60 watt speaker (celestion v30) so I geuss it could handle it?
It was standing upright on the floor (rug on cement) so much bass was escaping. I plan on decoupling it from the floor in the future possibly with an auralex amp stand but right now it doesn't matter because it's just to loud anyway.

Isolating my iso cab

So, I figured I'd have to build an iso box for it and I will if I have to but I really don't want to. I was thinking that I'd much rather get some sound proofing blankets or material and either throw them over the cab or tack or staple them to the cab, covering the entire outside of it. Now I'm probably getting laughed at right now. In theory it sounds like it might work to me but I don't know anything about this stuff. I know building an iso box would probably be cheaper but then again, maybe not by much, I don't know, plus I don't want to. I sure as hell don't want to spend $200 or $300 on mass loaded vinyl. I found some things that appeal to me and am wondering what you people think about these for my idea. I don't know how soundproof these things would be. I'm not looking to make it totally soundproof either but almost. Keep in mind that I could use many layers of the same material or of various kinds of material. $150 would be my max amount that I may be willing to spend on this if it gets the job done well.
Thanks in advance.

audimute
http://cgi.ebay.com/Soundproofing-S...0090950327QQcategoryZ3278QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

neoprene 1/8
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...STRK:MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=170089115203&rd=1

neoprene 1/2
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Sound Seal
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Saw these and thought...mmm, I don't know, maybe:

Sound Destroyer Mat Xtreme
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FatMat Car Audio Sound Deadener
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Is the whole idea a joke?

 

[NickL]

you can stab sound to death pretty easily by forcing it to go through many materials. Try this. Build another box out of plywood and some 2X4s that's just a few inches larger on all sides than the iso cab. Then cover the inside with insulation so that it only fills up about half the space. So then you'll have an iso cab inside of an iso cab with an air cushion in between. It sounds like a pain but you can probably get all the plywood for free if you know where to ask

 

[Radd]

I may end up doing that. That's the thing. I don't know if it will turn out better that way or the other way or what. Is it better to have some air to pass through between layers or does it really matter?

And if I do build a box, should I have a lid/door for mic access? (which I'd like), maybe put some casters on it and maybe the smaller Auralex Gamma amp stand pad thingy inside? Then I'd probably want to consider pressure latches and weather stripping. What a pain in the ass.
Or build a bottomless box and place it over the cab? (which would be a pain in the ass for mic access), maybe on a piece of plywood platform with weather stripping all around it?

These are all the things that are going on in my head.
How would you do it?

 

[Radd]

you can stab sound to death pretty easily by forcing it to go through many materials. Try this. Build another box out of plywood and some 2X4s that's just a few inches larger on all sides than the iso cab. Then cover the inside with insulation so that it only fills up about half the space. So then you'll have an iso cab inside of an iso cab with an air cushion in between. It sounds like a pain but you can probably get all the plywood for free if you know where to ask

Update:
I went with your suggestion Broodwich.
I got some free 3/4" plywood, cut to size, connected with L latches, caulked inside and outside, put casters on, put weather stripping around the top edge and latches on the "lid".

I built it so the Randall cab lays down because they have it standing upright with the speaker facing up while your mic is facing downward into the speaker. It seems very secure but I don't like that and don't want to take a chance on puncturing the speaker.

Bought some 1" Owen Corning's 703 insulation suggested by Matt Smith I think. Put 3 layers on the bottom, 2 layers on all the sides and 3 layers on the top under the lid. Wrapped in trash bags.

The Randall cab is packed in there real tight and I want to say "snug" on all the sides but I don't know if it should be. All I know is that I now can have the volume and master both on 7 at a daytime bedroom level!!! Nice! No more rattle either.
BUT...It produces major, I'm talking MAJOR booming bass frequencies.
(I don't know about recording yet, I'm talking in the room) Turned the bass on the amp down from 6 to 0 and it's still way to much.

Now the Randall cab isn't decoupled. I do have just enough room to put the Auralex Gramma amp stand (the small one) in there to decouple it.
From the reviews I've read on this thing I feel like this would help tremendously.
I'm wondering would this indeed be extremely helpful for those bass frequencies or are there other options that I should consider? I don't think those triangular bass traps would fit unless I can find some small enough to
use in place of the amp stand.
Should I get the Gramma? Suggestions?

Thanks Broodwich & Matt. I didn't think it would make as big of a difference as it does!

 

[Radd]

Gramma it is then.

 

[VH100R]

Gramma it is then.

post some pics!

 

[Radd]

post some pics!

A. I don't have a camera at the moment.
B. I'm lazy.
C. I think you're the only one that gives a crap.

Who knows though. Maybe I'll get a camera next week and go crazy.

 

[GuitarHack]

Hope the iso'd iso is working for you Radd. Krank it dude and give us a listen. Post some samples, that is where the real interest is.

 

[deathtotaliban]

way to go with the rigid fiber board. def. more cost effect per square foot than any other material. I am going to start building my acoustic panels and bass traps soon out of either the 703 or mineral wool, I can't wait. I can't remember where but there was a video on here I believe that showed a studio using one of the iso boxes for the amp, it looks like a killer idea for apartments or neighbors that hate you.

 

[Radd]

Hope the iso'd iso is working for you Radd. Krank it dude and give us a listen. Post some samples, that is where the real interest is.

I'm waiting for an AT4040 which should be here any day now and then I'll post some sound clips.
For Christ's sake I hope they don't suck.

 

[NickL]

I'm waiting for an AT4040 which should be here any day now and then I'll post some sound clips.
For Christ's sake I hope they don't suck.

so whats the news on your amp sounds? I'm also curious why you havent just slapped a 57 on there

 

[Radd]

Randall recommends using a condenser. I guess because it sounds better in that small boxed in area. When I tried a 57 & also an i5 at the lower volume of 3 & 2, although it was an improvement over my previous tone experiment, it still didn't sound great. Plus I wanted to get a good condenser anyway. This being my first one.

I got it Wednesday night and haven't gotten around to trying it yet. Mainly because I'm to tired when I get home from work & partly because I'm afraid I'll be disappointed still.

I will run a series of tests with all mics individually and post the results soon.
Please bare with me.

 

[GuitarHack]

Bump.

Radd, where's it at???

 

[Radd]

Ok. I've been working on it for the past several hours and a couple of nights this week and well...
Nah, I guess I'm fairly happy with my latest attempt "Tone Test 5" (at the moment). It's not exactly where I would like it and I'll have to continue working on it but so far it's the best recorded tone that I've gotten with this amp.

The AT4040 sounds fantastic but I can only have the volume & master no higher than 1 1/2 before it starts distorting all to hell which is where it's at in that clip. The iso box is still definitely helping with outside volume control greatly though so I don't feel like that it was a total waste to build. Only partly.

The 57 & i5 sounded so horrible I'm not even going to post them. They sounded like my original tests where I miced the krank cab at a super low volume except possibly even worse. I'll probably attempt them some more though and spend more time with them.

4 tracks raw
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=525552

Edit: Keep in mind that I'm using an instrument cable between the head and cab. lol. Something tells me that it has little to no affect on the tone but I have a speaker cable on the way anyway.

 

[GuitarHack]

Radd

That sounds a HEAP better than your previous tones. Looks like you are definitely going in the right direction, which I am sure you are happy/relieved about after all your efforts.

 

[Radd]

Thanks GH. Just listened to it some more today with fresh ears and I still feel fairly happy with it so yeah, I am feeling relieved a bit.
I can definately picture using this tone with a little processing.

 

[gibbed]

I am also interested in getting one of these or building something similiar

I like the tone you're getting in "tone test 5"

 

[Radd]

Thanks gibbed. I appreciate it. It seems to be the AT4040 making a world of difference.

 

[everybody's x]

I'm curious why you cant get something with the dynamics. My experience with it was fine once I moved away from the dustcap

 

[Radd]

My experience with it was fine once I moved away from the dustcap

Maybe that was my problem. I think I may have had to much mids going on from the amp also. I got frustrated pretty quickly and the condenser just captured the sound almost immediately. Very easy and quick.
Like I said, I really do need to spend more time with the dynamic mics.

I do wish I could get the amp louder and be able to capture that tone.
(I just had deju-vu when I wrote that - seriously )
Yet on the other hand I'm starting to feel that I could be perfectly happy with this tone I'm getting now. I don't know how much the speakers are moving and air is pushing, if at all. I'm very curious to know if anyone can tell and their thoughts on that from listening to that clip.