Recording Drums without a Mixer and Phasing Issues

[Demonstealer]

Hey guys,
Does anyone have any insight or links on some reading material. I'll be honest I'm a complete NOOB when it comes to recording and mixing live drums and I do struggle with it. I recorded drums in a studio which did not have a console and I was unable to print the tracking engineers EQ's and filters etc which actually was quite a great drum mix to start mixing from. My drummer says that we need those because of serious phasing in the drumming and that the engineer had balanced and EQd the drums to sort out all those issues. And was also told if he had recorded using the console we'd not have had those issues to begin with. This all resulting from each mic capturing the same part of the kit at a different time.

So anyway long story short what should I be keeping in mind and when I record my future albums as well how do I sort out phasing issues and when I'm recording the drums without using a console.

Thanks in advance.


PS - I'm sure I might sound like a retard. But trust me I feel it too

 

[KHE]

with a real drum-kit you will always have phase-issues. you simply can't eliminate them, because of the multi-miking / different sources / distances ect.
but you dont need a console to minimize them.
first and most important is your mic-placement. check your phases during mic-setup for each end every channel. check them by ear, check them by waveforms. switch the phase in your DAW/ preamp. is it 180°out of phase? switch it. is it more or less than 180° out of phase? move your mic if necessary.
make sure your drums sound great with as less phase-problems as possible. don't relie on EQ and stuff to fix it. make it sound great at the beginning.
but don't go crazy with this phase-stuff, you will always have some phase-problems.

cheers!

 

[Trevoire520]

By it's very nature recording a drum kit is one massive phase issue. Every drum is a different distance away from every mic in the setup.
Quite frankly if your drummer is telling you that having a mixing console will fix phase issues then he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. You have spot mic's inches away from the drum and overheads that are several feet away, you will always have these delays, it's perfectly normal.

The main thing you can do to resolve issues is to find out the tracks that are 180 degree's out of phase with others and phase invert them to correct this.
Typically you'll find the main mic's that give you phasing issues are the snare bottom mic (90% of the time this is out of phase with the top mic) and the kick mic (I find this needs flipped around 50% of the time)

Look at the waveforms in your DAW comparing each close mic to the overheads and room mic's. If something is out of phase then invert it,

 

[ArthurD]

^ What he said.
Check faderwear guide.
A tip I could give is: start by micing the snare top and make it your main track for phase purposes.
Then I would phase reverse the first OH mic until it sounds thin, like hearing the snare on a sea shell. When you find this spot, just reverse the phase again and it might be in phase.
Then do this with the next OHs mics, but with the first OH.
You could check on the daw also. Just record one hit and check it.
IBP tools is a good plugin for this.
If you are just mixing a song you didn't record, check the Melda Production Mautoalign.

 

[colonel kurtz]

avoiding phase problems with drums starts with proper mic placement, not EQ'ing and signal processing

while some issues can be worked on a bit thru flipping polarity and/or time aligning tracks, whatever the guy was doing on the console would have done little to alleviate any phase issues that exist

 

[Demonstealer]

So check this out. This is just the drums sort of mixed. I can't hear any phasing at all

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1953726/BB Drumix Rough.mp3

Maybe I'm wrong.

Here is the same clip with the music

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1953726/BB Drumix Rough-WithMusic.mp3

 

[Demonstealer]

Any feedback on anything will be appreciated.

 

[-Noodles-]

Trevoire520 - You surely mean polarity when you invert signals, not phase? :hotjump:

But, huge +1 to what you said.

 

[Trevoire520]

Oh ffs, try to help the guy and I get pulled up on a technicality

 

[Uros]

One tip I can give you is - start with micing OHs first. Try and get balanced stereo image, try to get kick and snare as close to the center as possible. Than start adding close mics one by one. Start with snare first. Check that it's in phase with OH mics by using correlation meter plugin. Than do the same with other mics - kick and toms. Use your ears too. Typically, when something is out of phase, it'll sound thin and powerless, so as mentioned, flip polarity switches on and off in your DAW. Good luck.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Mixer? EQs and phase issues?
My advice to you is to hire a professional to do the production.

 

[Demonstealer]

@Maamar - I sorted all that out. I have an issue with confidence and always get paranoid about stuff. I've got a decent mix going now without all that shit and realized there is no phase issues just mixing it with the right perspective and using my ears makes the difference.

 

[Demonstealer]

@Uros - Thanks for the advice

 

[Heabow]

One tip I can give you is - start with micing OHs first. Try and get balanced stereo image, try to get kick and snare as close to the center as possible. Than start adding close mics one by one. Start with snare first. Check that it's in phase with OH mics by using correlation meter plugin. Than do the same with other mics - kick and toms. Use your ears too. Typically, when something is out of phase, it'll sound thin and powerless, so as mentioned, flip polarity switches on and off in your DAW. Good luck.

This.