Recording Live Sound For Video

[drew_drummer]

Hey,

We're gonna be recording a video of us playing live in a big wide rehearsal space. Tis gonna be cool I reckon

what's the best way to do this? I was thinking of multi-tracking everything, so I'd need 11 inputs:

Kick
Snare T
Snare B
Tom 1
Tom 2
Floor Tom
Overhead L
Overhead R

Guitar 1
Guitar 2
Bass

Tips on how to handle the bleed from the drums into the guitars? I'll probably DI the bass. Maybe I should DI the guitars too, and re-amp them later??

 

[arv_foh]

Hey,

We're gonna be recording a video of us playing live in a big wide rehearsal space. Tis gonna be cool I reckon

what's the best way to do this? I was thinking of multi-tracking everything, so I'd need 11 inputs:

Kick
Snare T
Snare B
Tom 1
Tom 2
Floor Tom
Overhead L
Overhead R

Guitar 1
Guitar 2
Bass

Tips on how to handle the bleed from the drums into the guitars? I'll probably DI the bass. Maybe I should DI the guitars too, and re-amp them later??

I really don't think you'll have much problems with drums bleeding into the guitars, when I do multitrack live recordings of bands at my venue, I get a little bit of cymbals bleeding in, but not enough to where it detrimentally affects the mix, and the amps are literally right next to the drums, but yeah you said it yourself, if you want zero bleed DI the guitars.

 

[drew_drummer]

I think I might. I just figured out how to get this Digi 002 I borrowed from work, to sync to my Profire 2626; so now I have 12 mic preamps (not too concerned with the quality; they're all good enough) and 4 line-ins.

Now, I should probably take the signals from the output of the guitar pedalboards, and send them to the amps and to the soundcard. What's a relatively decent DI box that wont break the bank, that I can use with the hi-z signal from the guitar?

I could probably use the two hi-z inputs on the Profire, and put the mic's that would've gone into those inputs, through the 002. But I'd still need some sort of splitter for the signal coming from the pedalboards. Bassist has a Sansamp, so I'll take his DI from that.

Anyway... which would be the best method for DI'ing these guitars? Split with regular DI, into the Hi-Z inputs on the Profire... or get some dedicated guitar DI boxes and run those into the 002?

 

[arv_foh]

I think I might. I just figured out how to get this Digi 002 I borrowed from work, to sync to my Profire 2626; so now I have 12 mic preamps (not too concerned with the quality; they're all good enough) and 4 line-ins.

Now, I should probably take the signals from the output of the guitar pedalboards, and send them to the amps and to the soundcard. What's a relatively decent DI box that wont break the bank, that I can use with the hi-z signal from the guitar?

I could probably use the two hi-z inputs on the Profire, and put the mic's that would've gone into those inputs, through the 002. But I'd still need some sort of splitter for the signal coming from the pedalboards. Bassist has a Sansamp, so I'll take his DI from that.

Anyway... which would be the best method for DI'ing these guitars? Split with regular DI, into the Hi-Z inputs on the Profire... or get some dedicated guitar DI boxes and run those into the 002?

I'm a little confused about what you're trying to do. You're going to split the signal and take one into the Hi-Z and do what with the other? If you went right into Hi-Z you wouldn't need a DI. The DI you'd take directly after the guitar, before the pedalboards if you wanted to use amp sims on it later. Otherwise you would be getting a signal that's already been processed, yeah?

I have been using these DIs for years and never had a problem with them. They're very decently priced too.

http://productionoutlet.com/product_info.php?products_id=123

 

[drew_drummer]

Right, I probably just sound like an idiot. Here's what I think I want to do:

1. Record two guitars into the computer. Each guitar DI'd, and the amp would be mic'd too. So I'd get four tracks. DI each, mic each.
2. After recording the video and audio of drums, bass, and guitars. I'd turn the snare rattle off.
3. I'd then run the DI's through the amplifiers in the room, and record it down again onto different tracks. This is so I'm 100% sure that I don't have any bleed.
4. I now have a choice of using software amps, recorded mic'd amps during the performance, or mic'd DI'd signals.

Or am I just complicating this all way too much?

ps: Yeah, I want the signal affected - I don't want the dry guitar. This is for a live video; I'm just trying to capture the most original signal I can, with the least amount of detriment to the sound.

 

[raisedfist]

DI'ing the guitars is a great idea. If you listen to the quality of the Killswitch live dvd compared to most the guitars are great and must of been DI'ed, but I guessing they are probably re-tracked too....
Did a couple of tracks for the Bloodstock 09 DVD and the guitars are really the main problem that I have run into as you can re-amp/amp sim the DI bass or blend with mic'ed bass amp, and of course trigger the drums and then you are left with a wasp in a crisp packet guitar sound.
Also I would probably go for a hi hat mic instead of the snare bottom as at high volumes you may find the hats could do with a bit of a lift, defo found myself using the spot mics on the cymbals on the stuff I did but I did trigger the snare.
Hope thats some help

 

[drew_drummer]

Problem with spot mic's is...

Look how many cymbals our wenchling drummer has!!

The reason I want to play the guitars back through the amps after recording bass+drums is so we can keep the acoustics of the room intact, and not have to do too much studio trickery to get everything to sit. I want it to still sound live, but just a bit polished.

I messaged Radial, and they say:

2 x BigShot ABY (http://www.tonebone.com/re-bigshot-aby.htm) - this will split the signal to go to amp and computer
1 x X-Amp Re-amper (http://www.radialeng.com/di-xamp.htm) this will handle the reamping when your back in the studio - you can re-amp each guitar separately so you don't need two.
option B: you can use the ProRMP for re-amping to save dollars but I would recommend going for the X-Amp if you can as it is superior sounding.

 

[raisedfist]

Ha ha thats a load of cymbals!
Don' t think you need ABYs as a standard DI will have a thru and a Out. So you could go pedal board out into DI, then thru into amp and the output (which as its a DI out will be mic level) into your interface. Don't see how that would cause any noise etc etc. The best DI's I've used are the radical J48 if you have the cash but I have a lot of time for the JDI as they are nice and clean and you can reamp through them no problem too. You have to watch your inferface output into the DI into the amp but its all good.

 

[drew_drummer]

Not even sure I can really afford any of the Radial stuff. I was just enquiring. Will a regular DI convert the high impedance guitar level, into a low impedance line level? Something like the Samson S series ?

 

[raisedfist]

If you wanna go Guitar into Computer interface thats line level to mic level. Then the thru goes to the amp. I haven't used the S series but I have used an Behringer G100 (i know i know) into soundcard and amp with little problems, I think I may of had to engage the ground lift and I think I also ran it off the battery so not to add any mains into the loop that didn't need to be there. I hate to say it but the cab sim on them is not too bad either for live, blended in with a mic'ed cab, better the the H&K red box

 

[-Noodles-]

I'd DI the guitars (and bass) - and only mic the kit.

You can sample replace with hits made on the day.

You'll get spill from vox mics when not in use, and depending on the OHs (height etc) you may get bass coming through pretty loud (perhaps guitars, depending on which way they face / loudness) - so that's something to be weary of when mixing.

Easiest way to DI the lot (also, take Mic's if poss. but DIs are the easiest and cleanest way).

 

[GarethSE]

why would you want to make a live recording and kill all aspects of liveness with samples
fuck that

 

[muckypup1]

why would you want to make a live recording and kill all aspects of liveness with samples
fuck that

+1

The whole point of a live recording is that its live, not polished to fuck, so using samples on the drums is just pointless

 

[MdiMonk]

Live recording to video = less is more

Use solid 5 mic set up on drums + DI bass +close mic guitars + stereo pair room mic's + vocals feed to pa plus send to mix =FTW

 

[-Noodles-]

+1

The whole point of a live recording is that its live, not polished to fuck, so using samples on the drums is just pointless

You could say the same about record making, which the whole point was to have the "live experience" in your front living room?

Oh, and tell that to bands who use samples live.

 

[aortizjr]

Well at first I would say gobos to minimize bleed... but since it is a video that means things must look good.

There are lots of issues with really shooting it live unless you have a crew and you guys are well rehearsed. Ie. band makes a mistake but there were good shots, or camera crew makes a mistake and band does well. It can still work and come out well, but there are lots of variables.

What I would do is approach it like a music video. Not necessarily track and such. But mic everything up, run headphone mixes, turn amps and such to minimize bleed. Get a solid take that way first.

Then unplug everything, make the rehearsal space look cool, etc. Then shoot the video playing along to the recorded tracks. Yeah it is goofy feeling, but then your camera crew can focus on shots that line up with the music. Also the musicians can focus on visual performance rather than musical performance. If you only have 1 camera, then you can get multi-shots and really make the video a lot more interesting...