Renaissance of Progressive Metal

[LibertyBill]

Please see my column titled "Elixir for Ignorance" in the Florida Tech Crimson. The article titled "The Renaissance of Progressive Metal" is on page 10. In it, I discuss Progged Radio, the explosion of prog bands, and why mainstream radio sucks.

Crimson Issue Feb 3

Feel free to email me: bill_losapio@hotmail.com

 

[Progvan]

Great article Bill !!!!!!!

 

[beyondnerd]

Good article. I like how you presented a the ideas of your politics through the example of something that you are passionate about and which is not inherently polemic. I wonder what your thoughts are in regard to the reason behind why certain music fills the bulk of the airwaves and other music (e.g. prog) is marginalized to venues such as "the internet and related technologies". Are you of the opinion that a goverment/megaconglomerate controlled/influenced marketplace shapes the tastes of society or are you of the impression that some of us are born "bees" and while most are born flys.

 

[LibertyBill]

I wonder what your thoughts are in regard to the reason behind why certain music fills the bulk of the airwaves and other music (e.g. prog) is marginalized to venues such as "the internet and related technologies". Are you of the opinion that a goverment/megaconglomerate controlled/influenced marketplace shapes the tastes of society or are you of the impression that some of us are born "bees" and while most are born flys.

BN: Excellent question. Like Neo realized in the last Matrix movie, the matrix can control virtually our entire lives, but it can't ultimately remove human choice from the equation. Now, if the "powers that be" were unable to influence the listening populace, the art of propoganda would be non-existence. The fact that there is such a thing as propoganda is testament to the influence a broadcaster can have. Given that, are they actively trying to influence our tastes? I believe the answer to that is yes, personally. It makes the market more predictable for them. They don't have to work as hard.

This does not exempt us the consumer from our responsibility. If we choose to be blind sheep, shame on us. Now, if we had a true free market in broadcasting, the medium would be much more likely to meet a diversity of tastes. Though we have not traditionally had anything close to a free market, the listener must ultimately be held responsible for their tastes.

 

[beyondnerd]

Back to my question LB, why do you think most people are “flys” while a select few are “bees”? Is it a result of "human choice" where most "choose to be blind sheep"? Are the attempts at influencing taste successful? Is it Genetic? What do you and others think determines why some people like the kind of music on progged while others (most) like more “mainstream/commercial/top 40/…” music?

Side question: Who are “powers that be” ?

btw I hope the reason for my choice of fly in the analogy hasn’t been missed

 

[calcsam]

*shakes head* great article!

is it just me, or do you get the sense that progressive rock and metal has more than a normal amount of libertarians? I'm a Rothbardian libertarian myself, and looking both at bands (Rush stands out) and at the listeners, we seem to be more libertarian than would be expected.

oh and somewhat related, did you read the excellent piece BK Marcus wrote for Mises.org on that very topic of government regulation of the airwaves?

 

[LibertyBill]

Back to my question LB, why do you think most people are “flys” while a select few are “bees”? Is it a result of "human choice" where most "choose to be blind sheep"? Are the attempts at influencing taste successful? Is it Genetic? What do you and others think determines why some people like the kind of music on progged while others (most) like more “mainstream/commercial/top 40/…” music?

Most people are too shaky on their emotional foundation to buck the trends. Better to go along and get along, than be a "voice from the wilderness". I think this mindset is intentionally fostered, by the way.

Side question: Who are “powers that be” ?

The corporate~media complex that is in cahoots with quasi-govermental organizations (trilateral commission, council on foreign relations) and the government itself.

btw I hope the reason for my choice of fly in the analogy hasn’t been missed

Certainly not!

 

[LibertyBill]

Thanks, Calcsam! Very nice of you to say.

Neil Pert is a libertarian as I understand it. I think Prog and liberty both attract thoughtful people who are comfortable having tastes beyond the corporate-fed claptrap we are fed as "mainstream".

*oh and somewhat related, did you read the excellent piece BK Marcus wrote for Mises.org on that very topic of government regulation of the airwaves?

Uh, I don't think I caught this one. I better check it out. I'm a huge mises.org and lewrockwell.com junkie. Suprised I missed it

 

[T_man357]

Thanks, Calcsam! Very nice of you to say.

Neil Pert is a libertarian as I understand it. I think Prog and liberty both attract thoughtful people who are comfortable having tastes beyond the corporate-fed claptrap we are fed as "mainstream".


Uh, I don't think I caught this one. I better check it out. I'm a huge mises.org and lewrockwell.com junkie. Suprised I missed it

 

[Pinkeisch]

bump

 

[beyondnerd]

bump

Okay Pinkeisch, I liked this thread

Back to my question LB, why do you think most people are “flys” while a select few are “bees”? Is it a result of "human choice" where most "choose to be blind sheep"? Are the attempts at influencing taste successful? Is it Genetic? What do you and others think determines why some people like the kind of music on progged while others (most) like more “mainstream/commercial/top 40/…” music?

Most people are too shaky on their emotional foundation to buck the trends. Better to go along and get along, than be a "voice from the wildernes.

This would imply that a major portion of consumers who consume the media for the masses would really prefer to listen to non-mainstream music but choose not to out of fear of rejection or pressure to conform. While I think this may be true in some cases I don't think it's a substantial portion. An argument could also be made that some peolple who listen to prog do so not because they like the music but they feel compelled to be "a voice from the wilderness" and detest the idea of being part of mainstream America. Again this may be true of some, but not a significant portion. The question I'm getting at is what draws people to certain types of music whether or not they follow their inclinations. I believe that there are correlations between the music a person is drawn to and the psychological traits of the individual.
What do the rest of you think?

 

[calcsam]

beyondnerd:

This might sound elitist, but: the more intelligent and/or educated people are, the more differentiated their tastes become. This applies to progressive rock, not all types are drawn to Greek-myth-songs and epics. 70's prog - Yes, etc - was considered music for smart people, in both a derogatory and descriptive way, for example.

Such differentiated tastes also occur in the intellectual arena. The probability of someone being libertarian (or Marxist, for that matter) increases as they become smarter. There is likely to be some overlap between esthetic and intellectual spheres; ie, it's likely that there are quite a few smart people who happen to be both libertarian and like progressive rock.

Also, don't forget that Rush was heavily influenced by Rand, so libertarians/Objectivists could become interested in progressive rock through Rush.

 

[todzuallen]

I don't think listening to progressive rock/metal is a good way to measure someone's intelligence. To some people music is not that important also consider the time that you have put into finding prog metal bands that you like while they were possibly presuing more productive things.

 

[beyondnerd]

beyondnerd:

the more intelligent and/or educated people are, the more differentiated their tastes become...The probability of someone being libertarian (or Marxist, for that matter) increases as they become smarter.

Not that I'm necessarily disagreeing with you but I don’t suppose you have any research-based evidence to support your statements? Also differentiation of tastes does not explain why certain individuals (with perhaps certain characteristics) are drawn to certain types of music. If “intelligent” people are indeed more likely to be drawn to prog why are they people drawn to prog and not to say reggae for example?

Why do you (and everyone else) think your drawn to certain music?

Btw I don’t think it’s accurate to say Rush was heavily influenced by Rand, yeah there’s 2112 but that’s one out of 17 original studio albums.

 

[calcsam]

from Wikipedia, I'm sure you can find similar stuff elsewhere:

Literary references abound in Peart's lyrics. Examples include William Shakespeare ("Limelight"), Friedrich Nietzsche ("Cygnus X-1 Book II: Hemispheres"), John dos Passos ("The Camera Eye", "The Big Money"), and J. R. R. Tolkien ("Rivendell", "The Necromancer"). Some of the most oft-commented upon are homages to Ayn Rand's novel Anthem, in Rush's 1975 song of the same name on their Fly by Night album, and again in an explicitly acknowledged derivation in 1976's 2112 suite. Weary of accusations of "Fascism", or even simply ideological fealty to Rand's philosophy of "Objectivism" for acknowledging influence by Rand, Peart has sought to remind listeners of his eclecticism and independence in interviews. He did not, however, try to argue in defense of Rand's views. It may have made sense for him to explain that Objectivism is not entirely Right-Wing and in fact rejects Fascism.

For a start, the extent of my influence by the writings of Ayn Rand should not be overestimated -- I am no one's disciple.

In another interview Peart characterized his political views as simply "libertarian".

I would think more intelligent individuals are also drawn to other music types, such as reggae. Prog is simply one of these "more differentiated" types.

As for research, I don't really have any as such. I got the idea of differentiated tastes from Hayek, who used it in a different context, but it still applies here.

 

[beyondnerd]

Thanks for the info on Peart (gotta love the wikipedia).
In regards to your idea about differentiated music and "intelligent" people, I agree with the notion that more "intelligent" people are more likely to have more differentiated tastes. I'm curious as to why? Exposure through education (and the mutually influential relationship of intelligence and level of education) explains part of it but I believe there’s more to it.
In terms of research, many influential ideas in the field of psychology (the discipline that purports to have domain over the study of “intelligence”) have come from the method of introspection, so let’s have at it.
You seem to be an “intelligent” individual, Why do you think you are drawn to prog ?
I’d like to hear from everyone on this question, what is it about this music that draws you to it, and why do you think you are drawn to other forms of music as well?

 

[calcsam]

Exposure through education is one way that tasted are differentiated, though this mostly applies to ideas. Also, I would argue that curiosity is a natural feature of intelligence, which may prompt more intelligent people to explore things like music that are outside of "normal" boundaries. Prog rock would fall under that category.

Also in regards to prog rock, there has been shown to be a correlation between musicality and math skills, which probably extends (in a more weak form) to intelligence in general. More musically oriented people are more likely to enjoy the out-of-the-ordinary influences in prog (classical in Pinella's solo album, operatic in Nightwish, etc).

As to me specifically, I'm drawn to the intelligent lyrics of prog rock. I like Threshold a lot because of that, for example. But this is true generally in prog rock - compare Dream Theater lyrics to most popular music, and there's a pretty clear contrast. Especially concept albums - their rich complexity appeals to me.

 

[LibertyBill]

Music is man's greatest invention, above language, mathematics, engineering, philosophy, or any of these things. It gives humans the ability to communicate through forms that we don't necessarily control rationally. I've read some pretty amazing poetry, and seen some remarkable art, but it's never "affected" me to the extent my spine tingles and I get goosebumps. Yet ordinary "Joe's" making music do that to me. For me, the genre of prog metal is the avenue that most communicates with me. Perhaps, it was the impression fates warning made on me when I was an impressionable 16 year old. Why do people gravitate to different forms of music? That involves human communication beyond the rational, beyond the verbal or visible. It is something that involves an individual's passion. Asking it is not unreasonable, but pursuing the answer is somewhat akin to asking "why did that person fall in love with this person?" It involves such a crazy mix of emotion, experience, passion, and indeed, TIMING in one's life. We often tend to ignore the timing aspect, but I think that has a role.

 

[LibertyBill]

By the way, I came across a book written in 1987 called "Managing Public Opinion: The Corporate Offensive". Have not read, but here is a discussion of it that was on www.lewrockwell.com: http://www.lewrockwell.com/pilger/pilger27.html

We were talking above about the manipulation of people's tastes in music consumption....

 

[beyondnerd]

Music is man's greatest invention, above language, mathematics, engineering, philosophy, or any of these things. It gives humans the ability to communicate through forms that we don't necessarily control rationally. I've read some pretty amazing poetry, and seen some remarkable art, but it's never "affected" me to the extent my spine tingles and I get goosebumps. Yet ordinary "Joe's" making music do that to me. For me, the genre of prog metal is the avenue that most communicates with me. Perhaps, it was the impression fates warning made on me when I was an impressionable 16 year old. Why do people gravitate to different forms of music? That involves human communication beyond the rational, beyond the verbal or visible. It is something that involves an individual's passion. Asking it is not unreasonable, but pursuing the answer is somewhat akin to asking "why did that person fall in love with this person?" It involves such a crazy mix of emotion, experience, passion, and indeed, TIMING in one's life. We often tend to ignore the timing aspect, but I think that has a role.

Well put. Anytime we ask “Why” about anything the response will eventually lead off into fascinating arenas of philosophical speculation. The attempt at answering the question is not futile only in as much as it serves as an exercise to expand our idea sets and provides a springboard for more answerable questions such as how.
In regard to your statement “Music is man's greatest invention, above language” I remember reading about a theory that stated that man invented music long before language. The theory holds that our hominid ancestors used vocalizations for attracting mates in much the same way birds often do. Members of the species who were especially adept at producing a range of pleasing sound repertoires mated and therefore reproduced at greater rates than those less able. Vis-à-vis natural selection man’s vocal apparatus became sophisticated enough to produce the phonemes now found in the languages of the world. This would imply that our passion for music is part of our primitive instincts. (It may also explain why the singers always get the chicks ).