reverb and delay

[xconnyx]

hey!

since there is a lot talking about compression and stuff i wanted to talk about reverbs and delays a litte. i think that in this time when most productions are done with drumsamples/gearbox/pod/dead vocal booth/close micing reverbs/plates/halls/delays are more important then ever. even for the fact that we use triggers so much compression is slightly more unimportant then adding a good reverb. i think some sort of ambiance gets lost when you trigger drums or use software amps you'll need to add this ambiance by adding fx or good room samples.

i think adding reverb in a live situation is fairly easy. you already have a room and all its reflections you're just adding a reverb timed to the musik, mostly its plate reverbs to tight things(snare) up or to let things stick out a little more(vocals).

but in a studio situation its a little different. the most of us work in small studios with bad rooms which can't be used to place various room mics. so we have the get that feel via plugins. i'm more a live engineer and because of that i'm used to several hardware reverbs and delays like spx/d2/m1... and i'm always unsatisfied with using software plugs for reverb fx. but adding ambiance/space/natural feel these plugs are really important.

so i wanted to here your ways of working out a good FX (reverbs and delays) in your mix. also i'm interested if there are good plugins especially freeware.

cheers!

 

[kev]

Nice thread. I never seem to stray from BPM techniques, so if i've got a tune @ 140bpm, i'll take a plate verb for my snare, 60,000/140 = 428ms per 1/4. I'll tend to multiply that up by 4 to give a full note length and so a verb of 1.71s all told. For some reason i do this with the pre-delay as well, i dont know why though, just me and my OCD.

So then take 428ms/2 = 214 /2 = 107 / 2 = 53ms /2 = 26ms. That way i figure my snare reverb comes into play bouncing on a 64th note.

I then just tried to beat off the lows with a hi pass, and also a little hi cut to move any of the undesireable buzz that sometimes bounces back.

 

[Full_Tilt]

Ambiance can really make the difference between a sterile "Boxy" mix and a sparkly organic one . The trouble is finding FX that sound realistic or the right room for the natural reflections . but even some cheap solutions are better than totally dry if used sparingly on things like snare ,toms , guitar solo's ,vocals .
One of the techniques Ive always fancied having a go at is to record the reverb with a mic at a later date and different location using the desired tracked signals ,it must be a lot of messing around though with lugging gear around and shelling out for the P.A or other amps / speakers etc . Plug ins are just a lot more doable .
I try to use as little ambiance as possible .

 

[Fragle]

great thread idea

i feel that the correct use of delay/reverb is mandatory to get a professional sound.
unfortunately, i'm still not very good at it either, so any info from more experienced users will be greatly apprectiated.

anyways, especially for vocals i found that using a stereo delay really brings things to life and makes the lead vocal sit right on top of the mix.
i've also heared about using a e.g. 1/8th timed delay panned left, and another, 1/4th timed delay panned right or vice versa to get some more stereo spread, although i haven't had great results with that technique so far.

 

[xconnyx]

my techniques:

for live:
i normally use 4 units max (sometimes more if a digital desk is being used).
1 for snare, to make the snare sound a little smoother. it is mostly a reverb plate around 1.1 second, depends on the bpm of the song. but i dont calculate i just listen. but since rhythm is omnipresent in music i do, i'm sure my decisions are based on rhythm.i just don't use the calculator. mostly a yamaha spx900/990

1 unit as vocal reverb, 2.6ms to give the vocals a nice and smooth sounding wave of reverb. this depends more on the singers technique and style then on bpm. i mostly don't change that during the set. i also use this one for guitar solos. spx990

1 unit for vocal tap delay. usually i run this 1/4 note or 1/2 note wise. sometimes i add a chourus to those to give it a little more extra to stick out. in some difficult room i run this at 10000000000000bpm (i just press tap as fast as i can) to let the vocals stick out and not use it as a ping pong effect. tc d2 is preferd here.

1 unit for something else. like horns (i use to do a swing band) backup vocals/sometimes guitars. what ever unit is there

but the setup depends on the band i self. i mix a postrock band to. on of those bands where they don't have a singer and reverb pedals befor distortion. they already have big reverb waves but those are to harsh. so i use every fx unit i can get my hands on to add reverb from the console to the guitars. last time i had 4 units, 2 reverbs for guitars, 1 snare and a little for the keybordist, and a very very slow chourus added to the guitars to give them a strange wave being somewhere.



for studio:
i tend to emulate room for bands that need to sound like they would be on stage. so i add snare reverb to let the snare breath. this is a mix decision that is not based on the songs tempo! it is based on the style of music and the snare drum. i sometimes add some reverb based on tempo to get the kit more tight sounding. sometimes even a room to the overheads. depends

i add a room to close miced guitars. i do reamping in a very big room which actually has a reso at 60 or what ever. but i use ambiance mics only for clean guitars. so i add a room reverb in the guitar bus.

solos get a guns and roses reverb too

i use 1/4 note delay for vocals. sometimes a church style reverb to give it a little more extra in large note parts. also a little reverb which is not based on tempo. sometimes i use stereo spread to enlarge the stereo field of the reverb. gives everything a nice and smooth character without having too much level for the reverb.

i tend to figure out the daw stock pluings. i think there are so many plugins out there you cant actually focus on learing one plug like i used to do for live situations. also the new cubase 5 impuls reverb thing is pretty good. but i'm still using cubase 4 right now since cubase 5 keeps crashing my system for some reason.

 

[Mavaan]

Great tips!

I'm lost too with those reverbs and delays.

It make mix sounds much better if you can use it correct.We need more advices...Keep coming!

 

[KeithTidd]

For vox i tend to use digirack delay set to about a 1/4 note on both sides, with the right side slightly longer by a few ms. then i slap a dverb after it set to a long plate, like 2.5 seconds. I find though i'm using less and less reverb on vocals these days.

 

[Student]

One thing I like to do is have a pre-fader send to an aux, then compress vocals, but use the pre-fader send to verb so it explodes when the singer is loud but his dry vocals are consistent in amplitude, giving me control over the level but also a perceived increase in dynamic range of vocal, making choruses more exciting.

 

[xconnyx]

For vox i tend to use digirack delay set to about a 1/4 note on both sides, with the right side slightly longer by a few ms. then i slap a dverb after it set to a long plate, like 2.5 seconds. I find though i'm using less and less reverb on vocals these days.

yeah sure, it is less reverb these days in metal music. but i would tend to say that people got more aware how to use reverb to get a natural feel into the stereo field then adding a noticeable effect to let the eg vocals stick out and be upon the music. what i meant to say is, use reverbs and delays to get everything tighter and more transparent together and make i sound more clear and not to put something eg vocals on top of the mix and let it stick out by giving it a reverb wave.

but especially the "place vocals on top of the mix by adding much reverb" can be a good effect to make clean vocals fit even more to the singer intention/vibe. like patos and stuff