Rhythm Guitar Monitoring

[Genius Gone Insane]

I know the guys I've recorded can play tighter rhythm guitars when they are quadrupling tracks. I know I can get better results than I have been. I usually give them headphones with drums only (ie no other rhythm guitars so they wont get distracted). I always assumed this is the best way. What do you guys do? Do you ever do away with the headphones and just blast through the monitor speakers?

 

[chadsxe]

Headphones for me. Never had a problem. But then again I seen Machine and LOG recording there parts while listening through the moniters.

 

[STINNETT]

I record them with the cabinet closed up in a large closet, so I just crank the monitors in the room. I leave it up to them whether to play their own tracks back for them during the double tracking, sometimes they prefer that sometimes they don't.

 

[~BURNY~]

Headphones or monitors and 1 super tight guide track(edited beyond common sense). The player must stick to the guide track or he gets corporal or mental punishment. If the song is hard to play, I'd record small sequences step by step.

 

[STINNETT]

Headphones or monitors and 1 super tight guide track(edited beyond common sense). The player must stick to the guide track or he gets corporal or mental punishment. If the song is hard to play, I'd record small sequences step by step.

For the guide track, are you talking about a guide track of guitars?
I was just wondering if you actually went in and edited guitar tracks for timing, etc...

When you record in small sequences, do you ever think about killing yourself or someone near you while trying to get the guitarist to remember where to start and where / how to stop?

Typical conversation:
"Dude when you end the part with that stupid slide/god-awful noise bullshit it becomes alot harder to make it blend in with the next part"
"What do you mean"
"Remember where we siad you were going to stop.....well, STOP there...you know, like...really stop."
(next take)
"Dude, you did the fucking slide thing again!"
"What do you mean"
(Plays the offending track back for him)
"Right there, that fucking slide thing, you're cutting off the end of the chord"
"But that sounds cool"
"BUT YOU HAVE TO PLAY THE NEXT RIFF RIGHT AFTER THAT!"
"But I get to record it separately right?"
"Yes..that's the point"
"So why can't I do the slide?"

(This is where I remind them that I am recording them in steps because they suck violently and can't play the whole song.)

"Okay, I get it. I'm with you now. Thanks for doing that for me"
(next take)
"Dude, you fucking did the fucking slide again!!!!!"
(gets out gun and cocks it)

Ever go through that?

 

[Jackal_Strain]

Yes... I've gone through tha... Oh the memories!!!

 

[~BURNY~]

For the guide track, are you talking about a guide track of guitars?
I was just wondering if you actually went in and edited guitar tracks for timing, etc...

When you record in small sequences, do you ever think about killing yourself or someone near you while trying to get the guitarist to remember where to start and where / how to stop?

Typical conversation:
"Dude when you end the part with that stupid slide/god-awful noise bullshit it becomes alot harder to make it blend in with the next part"
"What do you mean"
"Remember where we siad you were going to stop.....well, STOP there...you know, like...really stop."
(next take)
"Dude, you did the fucking slide thing again!"
"What do you mean"
(Plays the offending track back for him)
"Right there, that fucking slide thing, you're cutting off the end of the chord"
"But that sounds cool"
"BUT YOU HAVE TO PLAY THE NEXT RIFF RIGHT AFTER THAT!"
"But I get to record it separately right?"
"Yes..that's the point"
"So why can't I do the slide?"

(This is where I remind them that I am recording them in steps because they suck violently and can't play the whole song.)

"Okay, I get it. I'm with you now. Thanks for doing that for me"
(next take)
"Dude, you fucking did the fucking slide again!!!!!"
(gets out gun and cocks it)

Ever go through that?

Yes, I'm talking about the first take played as the guitarist plays its doubling part. Imo, it must remain the reference track for all the other part (unless there are different parts... Oh shit, that sentence doesn't make any sense ).
Let me redo that...
1 First take (reference)
2 Doubling+reference played back
3 2nd guitar first take+reference pb
3 2nde guitar doubling+reference pb
That's why the first take has to be absolutely tight from the begining and edited in place if necessary. This way, you'll hear any problem and hit the Stop button.
If you let the player record each tape without an initial refernce... Let the party begin
Yes I often edit the timing, cut, paste, stretch and so on. Because I often record not so good musicians... Unfortunately.
And this conversation... Yes... Memories...

 

[STINNETT]

Yes, I'm talking about the first take played as the guitarist plays its doubling part. Imo, it must remain the reference track for all the other part (unless there are different parts... Oh shit, that sentence doesn't make any sense ).
Let me redo that...
1 First take (reference)
2 Doubling+reference played back
3 2nd guitar first take+reference pb
3 2nde guitar doubling+reference pb
That's why the first take has to be absolutely tight from the begining and edited in place if necessary. This way, you'll hear any problem and hit the Stop button.
If you let the player record each tape without an initial refernce... Let the party begin
Yes I often edit the timing, cut, paste, stretch and so on. Because I often record not so good musicians... Unfortunately.
And this conversation... Yes... Memories...

That's what I thought you meant, I've just always despised trying to edit guitar tracks for mistakes....Thanks.

 

[Polpotkin]

I always record guitars i sequences, riff by riff. It's much easier to go back, listen and check that it's ok than record the whole song 2/4 times and then try to figure out which track is untight and fill in the shitty parts... Headphones or not it's up to the player. some prefer to be in the same room as the cab, which I don't understand...

 

[JBroll]

I know I'm probably just batshitinsane for doing this, but I completely drop the rhythm guitars in mixes (and occasionally the drums) and record rhythm straight from either drum and click or just click, depending on how I'm feeling (and whether I like the drums at that point or not). I find that if I play tight as all hell from the same click track they'll all sound the same, and when I'm monitoring through headphones I always get thrown off by little things (and often things I think I hear but that aren't really there... take that as you will) so I wind up compounding inaccuracy and loose playing instead of tighter adherence to one or two tracks. I also tend to make five sets of tracks total and pick the four or six that match each other the best (this has also made me a very tight rhythm player...) so I have a larger sample of takes and I can match the most common to each other instead of matching each new take against an old one that may not even be representing the 'true' aspect of the playing very well.

Jeff

 

[Gnash]

I rarely have them punch in on the same rhythm track, unless they are changing tone, (Clean to dirty). I just think it sounds more natural to play it all the way through. Unless they suck, of course! When the first track is layed down, I pan it hard. NOW they can hear how bitchin the two sound together when panned WHILE THEY ARE TRACKING! Always makes them nail the next take! I track guitars and bass in the control room with the monitors BLASTING! Headphones SUCK!

 

[Benny H]

For the guide track, are you talking about a guide track of guitars?
I was just wondering if you actually went in and edited guitar tracks for timing, etc...

When you record in small sequences, do you ever think about killing yourself or someone near you while trying to get the guitarist to remember where to start and where / how to stop?

Typical conversation:
"Dude when you end the part with that stupid slide/god-awful noise bullshit it becomes alot harder to make it blend in with the next part"
"What do you mean"
"Remember where we siad you were going to stop.....well, STOP there...you know, like...really stop."
(next take)
"Dude, you did the fucking slide thing again!"
"What do you mean"
(Plays the offending track back for him)
"Right there, that fucking slide thing, you're cutting off the end of the chord"
"But that sounds cool"
"BUT YOU HAVE TO PLAY THE NEXT RIFF RIGHT AFTER THAT!"
"But I get to record it separately right?"
"Yes..that's the point"
"So why can't I do the slide?"

(This is where I remind them that I am recording them in steps because they suck violently and can't play the whole song.)

"Okay, I get it. I'm with you now. Thanks for doing that for me"
(next take)
"Dude, you fucking did the fucking slide again!!!!!"
(gets out gun and cocks it)

Ever go through that?

What you should do is get tell them to play from that point and continue playing as if they were performing the next part aswell... and not stop until you say. This takes it out of their mind that they're going to stop, and also means when you blend one clip with the next.. it's easier because you're blending 2 versions of the actual transition or the start.. not an ugly stop with a static start. Know what I mean?.. it's easier to blend a crossfade of the same thing.

It also obviously makes the guitar player interpret the feel of the riff differently when it's a -stop- riff.. your story is the evidence of this.
I think this can make a difference in the final outcome. You're not really in the groove of the song if you're playing up to a stop that isn't there.

My main experience is recording myself so it's a bit different. But anyway, what I do is play until I fuck up, or feel that I've fatigued that much that I'm starting to just squeeze the riffs out and lose tightness. Then I start again at the start of the riff that I fucked up. No need to divide it into sections if I can pull half or a quarter of the song off at once.

 

[STINNETT]

What you should do is get tell them to play from that point and continue playing as if they were performing the next part aswell... and not stop until you say. This takes it out of their mind that they're going to stop, and also means when you blend one clip with the next.. it's easier because you're blending 2 versions of the actual transition or the start.. not an ugly stop with a static start. Know what I mean?.. it's easier to blend a crossfade of the same thing.

It also obviously makes the guitar player interpret the feel of the riff differently when it's a -stop- riff.. your story is the evidence of this.
I think this can make a difference in the final outcome. You're not really in the groove of the song if you're playing up to a stop that isn't there.

My main experience is recording myself so it's a bit different. But anyway, what I do is play until I fuck up, or feel that I've fatigued that much that I'm starting to just squeeze the riffs out and lose tightness. Then I start again at the start of the riff that I fucked up. No need to divide it into sections if I can pull half or a quarter of the song off at once.

I hear you, that's good advice. The trouble I've ran into was like with the last guitarist I was recording....His trouble was transitioning between riffs with the position changes and all. He either stopped dead or he made a bunch of awful racket all over the strings...I started off letting him run on like you said, and trying to punch him in at the start of the new riffs, but I could never get a smooth blend, even if I slip edited the tracks all over the place looking for a sweet spot. He just fucked up the transitions too bad.
This is why I'm sick of recording metal bands around here, haha.

 

[tgs]

I hear you, that's good advice. The trouble I've ran into was like with the last guitarist I was recording....His trouble was transitioning between riffs with the position changes and all. He either stopped dead or he made a bunch of awful racket all over the strings...I started off letting him run on like you said, and trying to punch him in at the start of the new riffs, but I could never get a smooth blend, even if I slip edited the tracks all over the place looking for a sweet spot. He just fucked up the transitions too bad.
This is why I'm sick of recording metal bands around here, haha.

One way that I deal with problems like this is to tell the guitar player to hold the last note on the riff and let the recording run a bit into the next riff. I then go back, tell the guitar player to just hammer a bit on the first chord of the next riff while the riff before is playing, and to then come in when the riff starts. It usually works perfectly! The downside is to explain it to some players though as they for some reason can't figure out at all what I'm trying to say.

 

[nwright]

It sounds crazy that bands actually have trouble doing this! I just don't get it. When we record, I like to have my tightest rhythm track be my guide, and I track all my guitars to that track. I play back the main track through the left side of my headphones and track the others on my right side. I don't know why I do it this way, but I always have and it seems to work best for me.

As for punch ins, I always start playing prior to the punch in and keep playing past the punch out. That way it belnds most naturally. When I was tracking our bass player, I would tell him the punch in actually came in sooner and punched out later then it really did to make sure he started playing before the punch in and kept playing after the punch out to make sure it blended pretty seemlessly. Worked like a charm.