Riff panning question?

[koalamo]

I don't play guitar so sorry if this is a stupid question and the way I word it doesnt make sense
but say you have a riff and each guitarist plays a different part. So like one's playing a steady chugging with like say a note or two well the other is playing more of like a lead type harmony how would you go about panning that?

I know when you double track the rule is that your not supposed to know its double tracked but obviously if left and right we're playing different things it would be pretty obvious. Maybe I'm over thinking this? If what I described doesn't make sense I can post clips.


Thanks guys!

 

[RedDog]

Hard pan the rhythms, if there's a lead, track a lead. Or you can just pan both guitarists out and go for the live feel. But seriously, double track your rhythms. Then track your leads.

 

[sebby123]

But seriously, double track your rhythms. Then track your leads.

Agreed and for leads the old opposite reverb trick works well to clear up the middle while adding space.

 

[AndrewB]

Agreed and for leads the old opposite reverb trick works well to clear up the middle while adding space.

What's the opposite reverb trick?

 

[Trevoire520]

+1. Taking a mono copy of the verb and phase flipping it or something?

 

[ahjteam]

I bet he means this:

 

[TheUnknown]

Hard pan the rhythms, if there's a lead, track a lead. Or you can just pan both guitarists out and go for the live feel. But seriously, double track your rhythms. Then track your leads.

Was trying to figure this out myself last night...
So are you saying double the leads and hard pan also along with the rhythms
My situation aren't really straight up leads more of a 3-4 note harmony thing

Whats this reverb phase flip trick thing
I searched found nothing

 

[Mm1066]

Was trying to figure this out myself last night...
So are you saying double the leads and hard pan also along with the rhythms
My situation aren't really straight up leads more of a 3-4 note harmony thing

Whats this reverb phase flip trick thing
I searched found nothing

Depending on the lead, I would do

Solo guitar:

Center

Lead melodies (i.e. chorus melody or whatever)

45% L, 45% R

Harmonies

Double track one part, i.e. higher harmony, then pan 35% L and 35% R. Then pan the lower harmony part center.

 

[RedDog]

If you're doing a subtler lead, you can keep it center, pan harmonies away from each other for more isolation. I was saying you can give each player his own channel and keep the Live feel you get like in concert, or you can double track identical solid rhythms and pan those hard, then record the lead separately.

This has made my head hurt.

 

[Shinozoku]

I'm a big fan of Behemoth's riffing and production, and what I've noticed is Nergal and Seth rarely ever play the same thing, and they're 100% L/R. Nergal might be playing some big, beefy chords while Seth does tremolo picked root notes (or vice versa) and it sounds insane! You'll also hear an ominous riff on one side with a lead-ish melody on the other, and the panning doesn't change.

 

[sebby123]

I bet he means this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuyvT8nFMLY

Exactly, Works like a charm in most cases but be careful with it in dense mixes. Simply Dry lead with a little delay panned right wherever you see fit, and panned left 100% wet reverb.

 

[Mm1066]

If you're doing a subtler lead, you can keep it center, pan harmonies away from each other for more isolation. I was saying you can give each player his own channel and keep the Live feel you get like in concert, or you can double track identical solid rhythms and pan those hard, then record the lead separately.

This has made my head hurt.

Ive always liked it more when harmony leads are closer together, probably because when I do my own stuff I don't want people to be able to figure out whats being played

 

[TheUnknown]

Ive always liked it more when harmony leads are closer together, probably because when I do my own stuff I don't want people to be able to figure out whats being played

Holy shit I'm lost...haha
So what your saying here is exactly the effect I'm trying to get
kinda like a distant background noise but if you listened closely it's a harmony to the other guitars
If what you said in your first post is how you go about achieving that
Could you explain again...
I'm not really following what you saying

 

[Star Ark]

if the harmony line is meant to blend in with other guitars double track and experiment with the panning. It may sound good at 100 or 80 or something else, you need to decide for yourself what you like the sound of best.

If it's more of a feature guitar part I don't think you should double track and you should pan it centre... or wherever you think it sounds best.

if vocals or another feature instrument are playing then centre may not work, so pan the opposite from what ever cymbal the drummer is riding on. or pan wherever you think sounds best

 

[Mm1066]

Holy shit I'm lost...haha
So what your saying here is exactly the effect I'm trying to get
kinda like a distant background noise but if you listened closely it's a harmony to the other guitars
If what you said in your first post is how you go about achieving that
Could you explain again...
I'm not really following what you saying

Ok, say you have a harmony guitar part that consists of a higher harmony and a lower harmony. I personally would double track the higher part, so I have two takes of it. I would only do a single take of the lower harmony part. When I panned them, I would leave the lower part in the middle, and I would pan the higher parts slightly off center but still close to the lower part, maybe about 30%. After they were panned I would listen to them together with the rest of the instruments, and then I'd try to balance them out so one is being disguised by the other.

Make sense?

Sometimes for more distance I'd either highpass quite high or do a notch at 100Hz.

 

[TheUnknown]

Okay I understand, one last question about the panning of the harmony parts
Are you panning 30% L - R or 30% in one direction.

Thanks.

 

[Mm1066]

Both of the higher harmony parts would be panned 30% L and 30% R.

Edit: here's a short clip of what I mean http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4855778/Panning demo.mp3