Roy Mayorga: How I Got Stone Sour Studio Drum Sounds (mic run through etc)
- Thread starter MetalJonesy
- Start date
Please tell me there is an implied statement of qualification I'm missing with all these comments. Pretty please.
p.s. Hi, I'm new. Maybe that's why I don't understand?
DeclanWhite
Senior Member
true true true.. like.. it's better to blend samples with a good raw drum track than an average one etc. even if the costs are high.. which they can afford!
GeertSamuel
Member
If you have the possibility to overdo.....do it! Better to overdo then to underdo!
With all those mics available I would've done the same thing.
With all those mics available I would've done the same thing.
Notuern
Bloody vaginal belch
- Oct 20, 2007
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No offense, its pretty obvious that you guys haven't listened to the song.
I definitely get the idea of doing all this IF there would be a difference in the end product.. but they replaced the kick and snare(Probably toms too.), and neither the kick or snare sounds different from the basic sounds you hear on this forum every day.
As i said: If the drums where the "real deal" on the recording and the snare sounded different and awesome, that would be one thing.. but its all sample replaced and it doesnt sound much better then slate's stuff tbh.
Not every song or so, every take or so.
If they changed between every song i wouldn't think its strange at all, but they changed the skins every "third or forth take".
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USFIONK89GI&hd=1[/ame]
::XeS::
Member
Yeah you're right...but you didn't get my point.
One thing is if you start to record with the idea of soundreplace everything...but if you wanna try different solutions, why don't try if you have the budget?
Ok...there could be a sample in the snare and in the kick, but not in the room, not in the OH's, etc...
If it has to be the new idea of engineering....let's do everything with a fuckin' edrums, DFH2 and 10€/song so we can destroy also this job.
One thing is if you start to record with the idea of soundreplace everything...but if you wanna try different solutions, why don't try if you have the budget?
Ok...there could be a sample in the snare and in the kick, but not in the room, not in the OH's, etc...
If it has to be the new idea of engineering....let's do everything with a fuckin' edrums, DFH2 and 10€/song so we can destroy also this job.
Notuern
Bloody vaginal belch
- Oct 20, 2007
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If he really did use that amount of microphones, changed skins between every 3-4 takes, and still ended up using sample replacement, that guy should leave the studio and never turn back.
I just find it insane that a producer sets foot in a studio, using everything he have learned over the years to mic up a drumkit with 325247825 microphones and still getting such a bad sound that he ended up replacing it with samples.
And to be quite honest, i dont get what the f*ck the oh's and room had to do with my point at all?
That only affects the whole part of changing drumskins between every 3-4 takes(Which i doubt make any audible difference what so ever.).
Did you even read my post?
My point was that he did use samples in stead of the real drum tracks.. so he ended up doing almost the same thing any bedroom producer on this forum is doing.
Morgan C
MAX LOUD PRESETS¯\(°_o)/¯
Firstly, 3-4 takes for this drummer may be the entire song 4 times over, then replacing the skins. It's not hard music to play, I could do the entire song within 3-4 takes and I'm a terrible drummer.
Secondly, getting live drums as punchy as they are when sample-replaced is almost impossible. Especially once you add modern mastering volumes. The ONLY punchy, radio-ready album with live drums I've heard is Paramore's Riot, and even that had a bit of sample augmentation. I haven't heard anything else come even CLOSE to radio-ready punchy drums without sample replacement. Ever. If you know some albums, please tell, I'd love to check them out, but even my favourite live-drum albums (Reroute to Remain, BWP) would be absolutely pathetic when placed in a radio-ready rock mix.
Thirdly, I am jealous as fuck.
Line666
Fendurr
- Sep 2, 2006
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If Staub did indeed mix this then that was his choice, as the guy who engineered it was someone entirely different (a guy called Paul Fig) and to be honest if the gears there I can't see any problem in using it at the time, just because someone might make the choice later to sample replace doesnt mean the guy tracking should be any less than professional and not use the tools he has at his disposal.
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Lasse Lammert
HCAF Blitzkrieg
I'm sometimes using a shell mic, it's got massive amounts of "crack" (and pretty much not much else ).
it doesn't have the negative side effect that a bottom mic gives you when the wires are very tight (see example).
I like very tight snare wires, but the cut-off choking sound is often too much in the bottom mic, the shell mic sounds more even in that case.
here's a little example :
m201 top
sm57 bottom
km184 shell
slide them into your DAW and experiment (Files are completely raw of course, snare was my sensitone elite custom alloy, mic preamps were API.
).it doesn't have the negative side effect that a bottom mic gives you when the wires are very tight (see example).
I like very tight snare wires, but the cut-off choking sound is often too much in the bottom mic, the shell mic sounds more even in that case.
here's a little example :
m201 top
sm57 bottom
km184 shell
slide them into your DAW and experiment (Files are completely raw of course, snare was my sensitone elite custom alloy, mic preamps were API.
Notuern
Bloody vaginal belch
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Well, then we have a total playtime of tops 20 minutes on the drum heads.. and do you really think you would hear a notable difference?
I mean, its reasonable to change them that often if it wasnt because of the sample replacement on the close mic's(That tiny difference wont be heard in oh's and rooms.).
Getting that digital, flat sounding unnaturally punchy sound is impossible without sample replacing, yes.
My argument was built on the point of going through all of that trouble mici'ng the drums, changing and retuning the heads.. when he just replaced the entire kit with samples in the end anyways.
I wont go in to arguing about this any more, either you get my point by now or you never will.
Me too.
Djabthrash
Member
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
Yeah if they work anything like I do, 3 or 4 takes would mean 3 or 4 passes through the whole song, and then comping from that. I mean it's kinda hard to fuck up songs as simple as this on drums for anyone resembling a decent drummer. So I'd have thought 3 or 4 takes is 1 whole song. ~10 skin sets to go through on a whole record doesn't seem like so much on a major label production.
Whether or not it gets used later doesn't matter. Different people tracking, different people mixing. You never know what's in store for the production, so you just prepare it as well as you can. I mean would you guys seriously expect them to just neglect all the great gear in there and soldier on with an array of 57 and cardboardy, old, taped-up drum heads? Staub mixes very sample heavy, it's just his thing. If the record were given to someone else, it may have used more of the natural sound they worked for.
Whether or not it gets used later doesn't matter. Different people tracking, different people mixing. You never know what's in store for the production, so you just prepare it as well as you can. I mean would you guys seriously expect them to just neglect all the great gear in there and soldier on with an array of 57 and cardboardy, old, taped-up drum heads? Staub mixes very sample heavy, it's just his thing. If the record were given to someone else, it may have used more of the natural sound they worked for.
::XeS::
Member
slashvanyoung
Dopefish lives!
The "Staub thing" works IMO pretty well for a band like Stone Sour (even though the guitars on the last one were a bit of a muddy/phasey mess) that is "more Metal than Rock", it did NOT work for AIC IMHO who are the other way around. That record would have really benefited from more dynamic and natural/roomy drums. The only track that really shines with his approach is "A Looking In View".
Ever since "Load", I like Randy's stuff less and less.
Ever since "Load", I like Randy's stuff less and less.
Ermz
¯\(°_o)/¯
I agree with you on AIC. He does seem to be a bit one-dimensional these days. Hard hitting mixes don't work for every band. Though 'A Looking in View' absolutely slaughters. Hasn't left my reference pile for a second.
Thats it, the guys tracking it were giving whoever was gonna mix it the best raw drum sound with the most options possible using what was available to them. Anyone of us in the same position would do the same when you get to work on project like that.
It's the mixers choice to not use whats given to him. He's be very pissed off if he got 7-8 tracks of mediocre sounding drums after hearing they got tracked in a place like that.
On another note, using a 57 so high up as part of the OH set up I found kinda strange, wonder their reasoning behing that. I wonder if its the BBC style mono overhead idea that russ russell says he sometimes uses to glue a kit together. Still a 57 seems like a weird choice!
It's the mixers choice to not use whats given to him. He's be very pissed off if he got 7-8 tracks of mediocre sounding drums after hearing they got tracked in a place like that.
On another note, using a 57 so high up as part of the OH set up I found kinda strange, wonder their reasoning behing that. I wonder if its the BBC style mono overhead idea that russ russell says he sometimes uses to glue a kit together. Still a 57 seems like a weird choice!
Pedro Teixeira
Member
Are you sure? I know David Bendeth said that on gearslutz but I cant seem to buy into that, it sounds like samples to me, have a listen to the fills and pay attention to the toms, they literally sound triggered, like 1 velocity only.
But then again, Bendeth has the credits for mixing but he himself said on gearslutz that his assistants mixed it then he just went there turned up the faders till it sounded good.
Also, listen to UnderOath's Lost in the Sound of Separation. Recognize that snare?
DeclanWhite
Senior Member
if you look at the Rock Band moggs of the the paramore songs, you can very easily hear that it's either one snare sample or some extremely similar ones. the toms, kick and overheads are real though and the snare is muffled so you can't hear it, only the sample.
Mike Unstincs
Member
turned up the faders until it sounded good?..and he didnt really mix it? wow please post that article
and back it up. what about the other 50 records he did? same thing? lolhttp://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/images/smilies/wavey.gifSimilar threads
