Roy Mayorga: How I Got Stone Sour Studio Drum Sounds (mic run through etc)

[JeffTD]

if you look at the Rock Band moggs of the the paramore songs, you can very easily hear that it's either one snare sample or some extremely similar ones. the toms, kick and overheads are real though and the snare is muffled so you can't hear it, only the sample.

If you listen to those you can hear bleed from the real snare and kicks in there... I'm sure there's sample augmentation on the entire kit, but the snare changes depending on the song, as does the kick - it's got a fair bit of the real thing in there.

 

[Morgan C]

Are you sure? I know David Bendeth said that on gearslutz but I cant seem to buy into that, it sounds like samples to me, have a listen to the fills and pay attention to the toms, they literally sound triggered, like 1 velocity only.
But then again, Bendeth has the credits for mixing but he himself said on gearslutz that his assistants mixed it then he just went there turned up the faders till it sounded good.

Also, listen to UnderOath's Lost in the Sound of Separation. Recognize that snare?

I'm sure there's a bit of sample augmentation on the main hits (mostly to get that ring I'd imagine) - the drummer is fucking AWESOME. Literally the best drummer I've heard live, I honestly thought he was triggering or something but it was just too perfect for a live setting to be triggers, and they changed out snares a few times for different sounds, etc. He was just so fucking consistent and the entire drum sound was studio quality, except live.

Also, Bendeth said he rode the fuck out of the snare, and you can obviously hear in a lot of the fills on the snare there is a LOT of dynamics, that are just totally lost in other radiorock mixes. There's a mis-opened gate at the last chorus of MizBiz as well, and its really loud, so I'd imagine the toms are pretty much natural too (not really a fan of those toms though). When you get a good set of recorded toms, you really don't need to do much to them at ALL and there's very little bleed. Most drummers hit their toms like little bitches though, until its impossible to even see when they're hitting a note by zooming in on the waveform because there's no transient, let alone trigger, let alone use a gate and use the original performance.

Aaaaand finally, I had a listen to the GuitarHero tracks of MizBiz and there is a LOT of bleed. I mean, not a LOT of bleed, but compared to any other multitrack there's a TON. I get a pretty similar amount of bleed, tbh, in my snare/kick mics. When you hit hard and well it's not a huge problem - replacing my snare tracks with a sample of the same, you honestly cannot tell in the mix. No added benefit, apart from in fills, etc. The only difference is that my snare raws really aren't that great, and Bendeth's are fucking awesome.

When you get a good drummer, that shit mixes itself. Good drummers are like 1/10000 though.

And yeah, Bendeth has abused that snare for every album since XD

 

[Trep]

Regarding the whole 3 -4 trum takes reheading thing; I thought it was excessive too, but really i just assumed that he might be exagerating a little bit. He wasnt that commited to it in the video.

He says he tunes the drums open..... uhhhhh what? G2's over G Plus with Tape stripped across the bottom? I wouldnt be using anything more than a G1 on bottoms and maybe a dab of tape, but no where near as much as what he's got on there. Those G plus heads are like a single 12 mil or something

Thats not open sorry....

 

[Mea_Culpa89]

Regarding the video:
Drum recording techniques, and recording techniques in general, is like @ssholes: everybody has one!

The AEs in expensive studios, combined with bands that pay countless $$$ to record, will lead to approaches that might seem weird and pointless at most (home-studio) engineers!

The fact is that these guys have the experience. and knowledge to manipulate 6546 drum mics and make them sound outstanding!

Simple put: every approach is correct, as long as it sounds good, and from what i listened @ youtube, the final songs sound REALLY good, whether or not there was sample replacement involved.

Cheers!

 

[DeclanWhite]

If you listen to those you can hear bleed from the real snare and kicks in there... I'm sure there's sample augmentation on the entire kit, but the snare changes depending on the song, as does the kick - it's got a fair bit of the real thing in there.

crush, twyg and mizbiz are the same snare imo.. and the snare is exactly the same in twyg. compare the waveforms, its the same one sample throughout each song.. and the bleed in other mics is a really-fuckin-dampened snare to avoid snare bleed.

 

[DeclanWhite]

turned up the faders until it sounded good?..and he didnt really mix it? wow please post that article and back it up. what about the other 50 records he did? same thing? lolhttp://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/images/smilies/wavey.gif

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/2040634-post100.html

 

[SkybluestudiosBEN]

I think its bad ass that they went all out on the drums. I cant figure out any reasons not too. And im sure there was some blend of the original tones in the final mix. Also if the drummer feels confident with the sound as he is recording, the takes will have more life which is always a great thing as well.

 

[Scott C.]

I think its bad ass that they went all out on the drums. I cant figure out any reasons not too.

+1
and in the end it probably didn't really effect the total cost of the album that much anyway. I'm sure Evans didn't have a problem supplying free heads for the album. the drum tech is probably paid by the day or week anyway. So after a few takes the drummer takes a break,the engineer comps the tracks,the tech changes heads etc..

Anyone know how many days it took him to track the drums?

 

[Mike Unstincs]

I think you took this way too literally, setting up a mix and mixing it are two different things., but maybe you have not assigned channels on a console before? Pushing faders and mixing is more like it, its not like this was his first mix right?
I listened to the moggs, I think they are totally misleading and without the room mics these are bare bones samples to me. Its not like you are going to put the snare and kik samples in and it will sound like Paramore. I also really disagree with Bendeth using these samples after Riot, You mean to tell me that Breaking Benjamin, Our last Night, The Kaiser Chiefs and Set your Goals all sound like RIOT? thats ridiculous. I hear a different snare on every record he does.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/2040634-post100.html

 

[Melb_shredder]

^^^ interesting indeed

 

[Pedro Teixeira]

I think you took this way too literally, setting up a mix and mixing it are two different things., but maybe you have not assigned channels on a console before? Pushing faders and mixing is more like it, its not like this was his first mix right?
I listened to the moggs, I think they are totally misleading and without the room mics these are bare bones samples to me. Its not like you are going to put the snare and kik samples in and it will sound like Paramore. I also really disagree with Bendeth using these samples after Riot, You mean to tell me that Breaking Benjamin, Our last Night, The Kaiser Chiefs and Set your Goals all sound like RIOT? thats ridiculous. I hear a different snare on every record he does.

I don't know if that's aimed for me. But I work with a big mixing desk every day so I know what you're talking about. The thing is, I wasn't in ANY way saying the mixes sound identical, I only said that if you compare RIOT to Lost in the Sound of Separation the snare is exactly the same and if you listen to fills on the latter you'll see that it's heavily sampled, all the hard hitting snare fills sound mechanical, I'm NOT bashing on Bendeth nor saying it's bad, I love it, I'm a BIG fan of Bendeth. I was just saying that I had a hard time to believe that RIOT drums were natural because the snare does sound like sample (if you again pay attention to the hard hitting fills), so does toms, if you pay attention, I'm not entirely sure but I think it's in "Let the flames begin", the toms sound like 1 hit samples, really mechanical, that's just why I thought everything was sample replaced, I'll have to check the RockBand Moggs though, but couldn't it be possible that the stems were treated differently or something? The kick always sounded like a sample to me aswell, with a sinewave triggered with it (if you listen to the 1st song of the album as well)

 

[Morgan C]

I don't know if that's aimed for me. But I work with a big mixing desk every day so I know what you're talking about. The thing is, I wasn't in ANY way saying the mixes sound identical, I only said that if you compare RIOT to Lost in the Sound of Separation the snare is exactly the same and if you listen to fills on the latter you'll see that it's heavily sampled, all the hard hitting snare fills sound mechanical, I'm NOT bashing on Bendeth nor saying it's bad, I love it, I'm a BIG fan of Bendeth. I was just saying that I had a hard time to believe that RIOT drums were natural because the snare does sound like sample (if you again pay attention to the hard hitting fills), so does toms, if you pay attention, I'm not entirely sure but I think it's in "Let the flames begin", the toms sound like 1 hit samples, really mechanical, that's just why I thought everything was sample replaced, I'll have to check the RockBand Moggs though, but couldn't it be possible that the stems were treated differently or something? The kick always sounded like a sample to me aswell, with a sinewave triggered with it (if you listen to the 1st song of the album as well)

Bendeth definitely sampled the Riot snare and has used it on Breaking Benjamin, Underoath, There for Tomorrow, and probably some others too. However Paramore was the first one and I'm pretty sure its almost natural, and if its not its really convincing. Everything is ridden on practically every hit he said, and you can hear the kick's tone changes all the time depending on how hard it was hit, then the compression/automation evens the volume out. He definitely sampled on all the subsequent albums though.

 

[DeclanWhite]

all i know is there is shit-all snare in the overheads on 'thats what you get' and it is a very different sounding snare. on the snare track, it sounds exactly the same every single hit, with compression/automation evening it out a bit to make it more convincing. and it sounds the same snare on crush crush crush but with different processing. has an identical ring.

agree 100% on the kick.

 

[beyond dead]

cool video! good read.

although its obvious the mic selection and skin changes were somewhat excessive, it is better to be over pre-cautious then under pre-cautious.

Its also obvious that the drummer has a bit of a boner for luxury recording kit, so I`m sure that he had a big factor in deciding which studio the band recorded at.

whipping up all those extra mics and doing arguably unnecessary skin changes is probably what got him the job.

i would also like to mention that new skins will make a huge difference in the overhead and room sound.
I dont understand why having new skins would be less necessary for room mics or overheads. If anything i would consider it more important, because room sound is the biggest factor that differentiates samples from a natural drum recording.

 

[Morgan C]

all i know is there is shit-all snare in the overheads on 'thats what you get' and it is a very different sounding snare. on the snare track, it sounds exactly the same every single hit, with compression/automation evening it out a bit to make it more convincing. and it sounds the same snare on crush crush crush but with different processing. has an identical ring.

agree 100% on the kick.

Yeah, they definitely used samples for the ring, because in fills, etc. where it would get to messy there is zero ring. Plus I think getting that ridiculous ring with one snare is impossible, a frankensnare is needed. However the main body/attack/everything else of the snare I'm 99% is natural.

Perhaps we should stop derailing the thread >.>

 

[Mike Unstincs]

Please tell us which BB song has a snare drum like Paramore, which BB track and which Paramore tracks sound the same?
I must be going deaf.

Bendeth definitely sampled the Riot snare and has used it on Breaking Benjamin, Underoath, There for Tomorrow, and probably some others too. However Paramore was the first one and I'm pretty sure its almost natural, and if its not its really convincing. Everything is ridden on practically every hit he said, and you can hear the kick's tone changes all the time depending on how hard it was hit, then the compression/automation evens the volume out. He definitely sampled on all the subsequent albums though.

 

[Mike Unstincs]

So I have this straight..the "RIOT" Snare is the same one used throughout the whole record, right?
This is not what I hear at all, what I hear is about 5 snare drums all different. There is no riot snare. I hear the same on BB record.
Every track has exactly the same snare sound as does Breaking Benjamin, which also has about 7 snares.
Are you guys retarded????

Yeah, they definitely used samples for the ring, because in fills, etc. where it would get to messy there is zero ring. Plus I think getting that ridiculous ring with one snare is impossible, a frankensnare is needed. However the main body/attack/everything else of the snare I'm 99% is natural.

Perhaps we should stop derailing the thread >.>

 

[Ermz]

I find it hilarious that you guys actually care so much. Seriously, why?

Do what works, whether its 7 snares on a record, or one single sample. None of this is going to make or break an album. Riot's production is nothing to get caught up about. It's built around the snare; everything else is just mediocre. Even CLA's production line work on the latest sounds tons better as a whole. Wonder if we've gone off-topic enough yet.

 

[DeclanWhite]

im just aggravated at not being agreed with. im a 'has to be right' kinda guy haha

 

[Mike Unstincs]

CLA's mixes sound even worse to me, sterile and generic. Then again the new record hasn't sold that well either, barely gold
I dont expect to get any answers to my question, there isn't one.

I find it hilarious that you guys actually care so much. Seriously, why?

Do what works, whether its 7 snares on a record, or one single sample. None of this is going to make or break an album. Riot's production is nothing to get caught up about. It's built around the snare; everything else is just mediocre. Even CLA's production line work on the latest sounds tons better as a whole. Wonder if we've gone off-topic enough yet.