Sample replacement problems

[John_C]

I'm using drumagog, and i want to print a track of the sample replaced signal.

My problem is, the tracks have a lot of bleed and a lot of dynamic range, so i either end up with a complete deluge of mistriggers or quite a few hits get missed.

For mixing i can put up with a few missing hits, but it doesn't really cut it for a finished product.

I could automate the sensitivity so as to get those quiet hits in, or i could manually go through and make them all louder. Any other suggestions?

thanks in advance, i've worn myself out drum editing and i can't think of a good solution


EDIT: to illustrate the problem, the bleed from some of the snare hits is louder than some of the kick drum hits IN THE KICK DRUM MIC!

 

[AStacy2]

Damn, that's a lot of bleed! Well, if you were the one tracking it, next time maybe throw a blanket over the kick drum. I'd say set your Drumagog for whatever setting gets most of the hits and print that track and just add in the ones that Drumagog didn't get manually. You can try some tricks like hi-passing pretty high up to get the kick out or a gate or something but since you have a pretty bad problem with bleed those things might not help. I'd say just do it manually though in your situation.

 

[John_C]

I was the one tracking, and it was first ever time recording a kit, quite a while back now. The only thing that saved the day was that the studiospares sd101 sounded awesome in the kick. Having a pair of neumann TLM103s as overheads meant the cymbals were revealed to be as crap as they are.

The snare track isn't too bad, the problem is that the toms bleed low frequencies into the kick, and the snare bleeds mids and highs in. Makes triggering a right bitch. How would a blanket over the kick help bleed from the snare? i can't exactly put it over the front of the kick

I think i will have to do it manually, i don't see how else it can work.

 

[Suicide_As_Alibi]

EDIT: to illustrate the problem, the bleed from some of the snare hits is louder than some of the kick drum hits IN THE KICK DRUM MIC!

I've actually had that exact problem before. This is how I got round it:

- On the kick track, low-pass like crazy to around 120-150Hz, and add a nice tight (high Q) peak wherever the 'thump' of the kick is (normally around 70-90Hz) - you should end up with a really odd sounding track that's just lots of booming thuds, but it should remove most of the snare sound,

- Add a gate to the kick; quick attack, short hold, quick release, if you've got a gate with a "lookahead" use that, and cut to -infinity when the gate is closed so that all you get out of it is a short sharp thump sound on all the kick hits, and the snare hits are completely cut out. It doesn't matter how unnatural it sounds; it's all about getting rid of the snare hits,

- Add Drumagog,

- Listen to the whole triggered kick track, and note any snare hits that are still causing mis-triggers - then cut those hits out by hand.

You should end up with a decently triggered track. The next step is to solo all the drums and play the tracks through to check the kick is in time - you might need to adjust the attack on the gate to make sure you're triggering on the transient and not too late (as you're triggering from the 'thump' of the kick, which happens a tiny bit after the 'click').

Steve

 

[DaWolf]

That`s how I do it as well. Only I use the lowpass of the gate instead of EQ. Just loop a critical part and switch between the gate and drumagog and slide the frequency down until the snare and tom triggers disappear. Same thing with the snare, only with a highpass.
Then render it down and you have a clean track that`s easier to edit.

 

[John_C]

Thanks for the advice!

The problem i'm having is that even with hold and release at 0, the hits are still too long and boomy for drumagog to trigger accurately from

 

[DaWolf]

Strange, are you sure it`s gating at all ?
Another thing you could try.. do you have a transient design plugin ? so could get rid of the boomy decay and get a cleaner signal.
Also try turning the input volume up in Drumagog so you can set the sensitivity more acurately.

 

[John_C]

Strange, are you sure it`s gating at all ?
Another thing you could try.. do you have a transient design plugin ? so could get rid of the boomy decay and get a cleaner signal.
Also try turning the input volume up in Drumagog so you can set the sensitivity more acurately.

there are sections of the piece that have 260bpm 8th note triplets, so the notes have to cut off quite quickly. I'll try a transient designer

 

[drew_drummer]

How committed to using Drumagog are you? I've had GREAT results in Reaper, using a combination of ReaFIR and drumtrigger (Jesusonic effect). ReaFIR in gate mode allows you to gate a specific range of frequencies, which you could use to get rid of the boominess and sustain of the kick; for a key track, all you really need is the initial transient of the kick.

 

[Matula]

Make a copy of the kick track, I name it "Kick for Trig" and then I edit it, get rid of the bleeds and stuff. I use Wavelab. Then add Drumagog and listen to the whole track to make sure all hits are fine. Render it. I name it "Kick Trig", then add it as a new kick track in your DAW. Tedious as hell but 100% sure everything is ok.

 

[John_C]

thanks for the advice, in the end i've decided to go with printing the track section by section, adjusting thresholds for each.
Playing back at half speed in order to check for any mistriggers and then individually reprinting the hits that missed with more editing and adjusted settings.