School me on tracking in PT LE..

[CJWall]

Ayyyy all! I just recently got (as in last week) a Digi 003R to replace my FF800.

The unit sounds great (comparable to the FF800, marginal difference in quality IMO) and I got it up and running in no time and my system is running fairly stable.

My question is, I'm coming from the Cubendo arena which has fully compensated delays for plug-ins, tracking, etc. While as we all know, PT LE has none of this.

My question is, what are the easiest, most hassle free ways to TRACK in PT with minimal latency and maximum reliability?

Do you guys end up shifting newly recorded tracks back in time? And if so, how do you determine the amount to shift? Whatever millisecond my delay actually is, according to PT?

How do you handle monitoring? At 64 or 128 sample buffer with low-latency monitoring enabled, I can get acceptable latency, but I was wondering if their was a better idea someone had..

I'm very comfortable MIXING in PT and the lack of delay comp doesn't bother me at all. I just haven't done a whole lot of tracking in it and want to get comfortable before I have bands come in to track..

Kind of a stupid question, but I guess what I'd really like to know is how do YOU specifically set things up in PT whilst tracking.

Thanks for any help dudes!

 

[-Gavin-]

May be stupid...


Track in Cubase, unltd track count and stuff and then export what you use to PTLE to mix?


doesn't help your cause but it's what i'd do.

 

[egan.]

Ayyyy all! I just recently got (as in last week) a Digi 003R to replace my FF800.

The unit sounds great (comparable to the FF800, marginal difference in quality IMO) and I got it up and running in no time and my system is running fairly stable.

My question is, I'm coming from the Cubendo arena which has fully compensated delays for plug-ins, tracking, etc. While as we all know, PT LE has none of this.

My question is, what are the easiest, most hassle free ways to TRACK in PT with minimal latency and maximum reliability?

Do you guys end up shifting newly recorded tracks back in time? And if so, how do you determine the amount to shift? Whatever millisecond my delay actually is, according to PT?

How do you handle monitoring? At 64 or 128 sample buffer with low-latency monitoring enabled, I can get acceptable latency, but I was wondering if their was a better idea someone had..

I'm very comfortable MIXING in PT and the lack of delay comp doesn't bother me at all. I just haven't done a whole lot of tracking in it and want to get comfortable before I have bands come in to track..

Kind of a stupid question, but I guess what I'd really like to know is how do YOU specifically set things up in PT whilst tracking.

Thanks for any help dudes!

When I track drums I just put an SSL channel on every drum in PT. The sample delay is almost nothing (1 to be exact) and all of the drums are delayed by the same (undetectable) amount. If/when I change things later I use one of the techniques below.
When you do want to use different plugz you have a couple of options. But, the plugin delay is only an issue for things that are phase related (ex. any drum mics, multiple mics on a guitar cab, etc.)
If you crl+click a couple of time on the vol meter it will tell you the exact # of samples of delay. You can then add a "time adjust" plug to the tracks and adjust it until the delays are the same.
If you do decide to shift tracks I suggest that you do so on a duplicate playlist so that you can always revert to the original timing if necessary.
Hope this makes sense and is helpful.

edit: It sounds like you are a little unclear on what ADC does. ADC has to do w/ automatically compensating for the delay incurred buy plugins. IME it has never had an effect on tracking. The most bloated plugz I use only create 64 samples of delay which I believe equates to less than 1.5ms @44.1. What has had an effect on tracking are buffer settings, but this is true in any DAW.

 

[CJWall]

When I track drums I just put an SSL channel on every drum in PT. The sample delay is almost nothing (1 to be exact) and all of the drums are delayed by the same (undetectable) amount. If/when I change things later I use one of the techniques below.
When you do want to use different plugz you have a couple of options. But, the plugin delay is only an issue for things that are phase related (ex. any drum mics, multiple mics on a guitar cab, etc.)
If you crl+click a couple of time on the vol meter it will tell you the exact # of samples of delay. You can then add a "time adjust" plug to the tracks and adjust it until the delays are the same.
If you do decide to shift tracks I suggest that you do so on a duplicate playlist so that you can always revert to the original timing if necessary.
Hope this makes sense and is helpful.

Thanks dude, I already knew/do that during the mix though..

My problem is more of tracking, say.. 4 tracks of guitar to the click or some MIDI programmed drums, and having them sound 'late' and just guessing as to how much to shift them back.

Oh and Gav, that's the option I think I'm going to take, haha. It just takes so fucking looong to export shit out of Cubendo, one track at a time.

I however, can NOT live without the MIDI in Cubendo. ..

 

[-Gavin-]

Thanks dude, I already knew/do that during the mix though..

My problem is more of tracking, say.. 4 tracks of guitar to the click or some MIDI programmed drums, and having them sound 'late' and just guessing as to how much to shift them back.

Oh and Gav, that's the option I think I'm going to take, haha. It just takes so fucking looong to export shit out of Cubendo, one track at a time.

I however, can NOT live without the MIDI in Cubendo. ..

That said, ditch PT and Cubum and get Sonar!

 

[greyskull]

Thanks dude, I already knew/do that during the mix though..

My problem is more of tracking, say.. 4 tracks of guitar to the click or some MIDI programmed drums, and having them sound 'late' and just guessing as to how much to shift them back.

Oh and Gav, that's the option I think I'm going to take, haha. It just takes so fucking looong to export shit out of Cubendo, one track at a time.

I however, can NOT live without the MIDI in Cubendo. ..

bear with me.
ill post you some nice pictures on how toos later!!

to be honest, unless your using plug ins that give you no latency at all. (digi rack stuff doesnt) dont track things with plug ins on.
it makes your system more stable too

 

[egan.]

Thanks dude, I already knew/do that during the mix though..

My problem is more of tracking, say.. 4 tracks of guitar to the click or some MIDI programmed drums, and having them sound 'late' and just guessing as to how much to shift them back.

Yeah sorry if I repeated a bunch of stuff you knew. I've never had any issues w/ timing while tracking. Granted my sytem is pretty much pinned at 64sample buffer.

 

[2012]

My question is, what are the easiest, most hassle free ways to TRACK in PT with minimal latency and maximum reliability?

There is no latency incurred when tracking other than the track offset which can be measured by recording a transient from an output on the 003 routed back to an input and measuring the samples between them. Even then, I never shift anything except stuff that makes a DA/AD round trip out of the computer and back in, like reamped tracks for example.

Do you guys end up shifting newly recorded tracks back in time? And if so, how do you determine the amount to shift? Whatever millisecond my delay actually is, according to PT?

Tracking w/ plugs on the inserts can incur monitoring latency on the recorded track, but it does not record the plugin's output to the track, and the vast majority of RTAS plugs do not have any latency. The SSL Channel is only 1 sample, IIRC. The same goes for Massey CT4 and Digidesign Smack. Also, since the inserts are post-region, the recorded audio is unaffected.

However, using Low-Latency mode will disable inserts and sends on record-enabled tracks

How do you handle monitoring? At 64 or 128 sample buffer with low-latency monitoring enabled, I can get acceptable latency, but I was wondering if their was a better idea someone had.

When I'm tracking live instruments, I keep the buffer at 512 w/ Low-Latency Monitoring enabled. This brings the monitoring latency down to nearly zero.

When tracking w/ virtual instruments on the inserts I'll run the buffer as low as PT will allow, but I stop at 256 and start disabling other tracks before I go any higher. A buffer of 256 is still decent when it comes to keyboard response, especially when you're quantizing the MIDI anyway.

Kind of a stupid question, but I guess what I'd really like to know is how do YOU specifically set things up in PT whilst tracking.

Set up various session scenarios with all the audio tracks, instrument tracks, plugins, and sends you think you might need. Save these session files in a folder called session templates. Then, when you start tracking a new song, create a new session and import session data from the proper template. You probably already do this when mixing in PT.

Hope this helps,

 

[Aaron Smith]

Set up various session scenarios with all the audio tracks, instrument tracks, plugins, and sends you think you might need. Save these session files in a folder called session templates. Then, when you start tracking a new song, create a new session and import session data from the proper template.

Templates are a good practice. You can take it one step further as well, and use your operating system's "Read-Only" function on the file, that way you won't accidentally save over your template and have to put a new one together.

 

[Seizure.]

Cubendo? haha

 

[broken81]

huh i just use low latency monitoring enabled and i never had a problem with tracking and latency at all and i run the hight buffer all times:Smug:

Sorry to switch subject......

Now about template i did one and did read only in properties but it seems kinda weired cause all my audio tracks go into folder that session template was made in and then i save session template after i did my work and rename to song in different folder and its just protools session logo thing with no fade file folder or audio folder they all end up in that session template folder? I know i got to be doing something wrong... I'm on PC if that matters

 

[CJWall]

Thanks dudes, that's pretty much exactly what I needed to know.

I'm a big 'mix as I go' kind of go while tracking, so I love the idea of a 512 buffer w/low-latency mode enabled while tracking. That seems like my best route.

Thanks for the info, especially 2012! A lot of that is things that I did not know, or hadn't confirmed about PTLE. Makes me feel more at ease...

Oh and greyskull, those pics would still be appreciated!

Cheers dudes, this is the only forum I can count on a straight answer from!

- Charlie

 

[kaomao]

hey cj remember that if you use lowlatency monitoring, on the tracks you're recording you can't have any plugin active, they're disabled.
So if you drummer needs to hear a sample on his kick, you have to :
1) Turn off lowlatency monitoring
2) set a very low buffer (256 or 512... better 256) to avoid any latency

that's it
have fun with protools, once you gen into it you never get back.
Beat detective is your friend now ahahha


EDIT: ok I noticed just now that 2012 has said already what I have written.. sorry

 

[CJWall]

hey cj remember that if you use lowlatency monitoring, on the tracks you're recording you can't have any plugin active, they're disabled.
So if you drummer needs to hear a sample on his kick, you have to :
1) Turn off lowlatency monitoring
2) set a very low buffer (256 or 512... better 256) to avoid any latency

that's it
have fun with protools, once you gen into it you never get back.
Beat detective is your friend now ahahha


EDIT: ok I noticed just now that 2012 has said already what I have written.. sorry

right on dude, thanks all the same!

 

[poidaobi]

Sorry If I've misread or this is incredibly n00bish. But why do you have to extract everytrack in Cubase one at a time to go into Pro Tools?

I just Bounce them all. (lets say 11 tracks for example) Save a new project (remove unused files) And there are the 11 tracks in the single "Audio" folder as WAV then I import these 11 tracks into Pro Tools.

Sorry If I'm being a dummy.

 

[2012]

I'm a big 'mix as I go' kind of go while tracking, so I love the idea of a 512 buffer w/low-latency mode enabled while tracking. That seems like my best route.

Definitely, and it's easier to nail the timing on parts when you aren't monitoring with latency on the input signal. PT is a lot more stable at 512, as well. Keep in mind that the meters are also disabled on record-enabled tracks when in low-latency mode. You'll have to switch back & forth when setting levels on your preamps.

Sorry to switch subject......

Now about template i did one and did read only in properties but it seems kinda weired cause all my audio tracks go into folder that session template was made in and then i save session template after i did my work and rename to song in different folder and its just protools session logo thing with no fade file folder or audio folder they all end up in that session template folder? I know i got to be doing something wrong... I'm on PC if that matters

Set up the template, let's call it Template 1. Apple+S (Alt+S on PC?) to save the session. Next, create a folder somewhere called PT Templates. This can even be on the desktop, it doesn't matter. Where it will be easiest for you to get to. Go to the Template 1 session folder and copy only the session file Template 1.ptf/pts to the PT Templates folder. Right-click on the the Template 1 file > Get Info (on PC I think it's called Properties?) and change the permissions to Read Only and lock it. Delete the Template 1 session folder now. Go back to Pro Tools and create a new session for the song you're going to be working on. Let's call it... shit, I don't know - Song 1. Once you've created the session, go to File > Import > Session Data and select the Template.pts file. The next dialog will give you options on which portions of the session data you want to import. Option-click on one of the track's destination and select 'New Track' to create new tracks for every one in your session template. You can de-select the 'Tempo / Meter Map' and 'Markers / Memory Locations' because you will create those in the actual session. You don't need the SRC, because there is no audio. Then click OK and it will create new tracks corresponding to what was in your template. Apple-S (Alt+S on PC?) to save the Song 1 session. That's it, now everything you record should be in the Song 1 session folder and the Template 1 session file will still be in the Session Templates folder without any Audio Files, Fade Files folders, etc. Whenever you begin a new song, just create a new session follow the steps from Import > Session Data.

Hope this helps.

 

[Gaspard]

When I track drums I just put an SSL channel on every drum in PT. The sample delay is almost nothing (1 to be exact) and all of the drums are delayed by the same (undetectable) amount. If/when I change things later I use one of the techniques below.
When you do want to use different plugz you have a couple of options. But, the plugin delay is only an issue for things that are phase related (ex. any drum mics, multiple mics on a guitar cab, etc.)
If you crl+click a couple of time on the vol meter it will tell you the exact # of samples of delay. You can then add a "time adjust" plug to the tracks and adjust it until the delays are the same.
If you do decide to shift tracks I suggest that you do so on a duplicate playlist so that you can always revert to the original timing if necessary.
Hope this makes sense and is helpful.

edit: It sounds like you are a little unclear on what ADC does. ADC has to do w/ automatically compensating for the delay incurred buy plugins. IME it has never had an effect on tracking. The most bloated plugz I use only create 64 samples of delay which I believe equates to less than 1.5ms @44.1. What has had an effect on tracking are buffer settings, but this is true in any DAW.

what is an SSL ?

 

[kaomao]

what is an SSL ?

He's talking about the waves plug-in, the one that emulates the channel of an ssl console.
Great plug-in! highly recommended

 

[carvedones]

Whats better to use pro tools or cubase?

 

[-Gavin-]

Sonar.