Shoot-out VCC/A800 Studer ON/OFF : Big alt rock mix

[pifos_2]

Hi guys,

I am working on this cool mix, i demoed the vcc and put it on all my tracks and buses. i thought it'd be cool to share the result and I wanted to know what it was precisely doing, i bounced 3 verions :

- VCC ON / Studer ON
- VCC off / Studer off
- VCC off / Studer ON

http://soundcloud.com/brainworksstudios/sets/vcc-studer-shoutoot-1/s-CBhHh

I also included a file Compare 3. Download it, click on the arrow on the right. Slide it in your daw with tempo 145. the first 2 bars are both plugins on, the next 2 bars are both off and the last 2 studer on/vcc off. Because of those plugins are doing to the low end, especially the kick, i should have re-balanced the whole mix. but it didnt, dont really have the time for that. Note that oversampling was on the maximum setting on every instances. I used the 4k console.

Well, from this example, my conclusion is that those plugins are really not doing a lot... And I really pushed every single instances, whatever it is studer or vcc. The vcc is pushed always a lot in the red on the meter. And so is the studer, i always pushed until it started to sound too much.

So is it worth it to get the studer + an extra Quad card to throw the studer on all your tracks ? I don't think so. Is it worth is to buy the VCC, well i really pushed and i dont hear a whole world of difference. So i'd rather invest the money in a cool souding eq like the UAD neve. Something I can hear working.

All i can hear is that the kick is compressed less when the plugins are off and it's jumping out of the mix. And it took friggin long to set-up the plugins and the levels on every single track... not worth the time too imo.

PN : I am also interested to know what you guys are thinking of the mix with both plugins on. Any improvements ?

Cheers,
Nicolas.

 

[Clark Kent]

Sounds like a modern "old" Incubus. The vocalist sounds exactly the same.

I love how this mix sounds. VERY professional!! Don't change anything.

The one with both VCC and Studer on sounds best to me. I'm not going to throw a cliche and say that is sounds warmer. The biggest difference can be heard in the KICK and SNARE. "Only Studer on" was my least favorite. The snare sounded a bit weird in that one. The one with both on had a round professional studio sound. Perfect. Now I have GAS. The track with those effect off sounded a bit sharp. Especially the kick was a bit sharper than I'd like it to be.

 

[Nuno Filipe]

Very good mix. Again good bass sound. The differences with those plugins are almost inexistent.

 

[Lon]

the plugin-barrage does have a smooth top-end transient-response quality which is desireable, but its doubtful they are the only way to achieve it.

 

[ArthurD]

I think that Studer alone souded better

 

[Wisheraser]

The 4K is easily the most subtle of the VCCs consoles. Try it with the Neve or Trident and you'll definitely notice an improvement.

 

[Ermz]

Try not to listen to it too intently. The benefit of VCC doesn't come from an immediate 'WOW!' frequency spectrum, or front-to-back effect... it comes from the transient control & glue.

Just listen to 'both on' and 'both off' against each other, but try to listen passively. Feel how much more glued and vibey the Studer and VCC version is.

If you want an immediate 'wow this is amazing!!' effect, you want something like Nebula 4k consoles and tape programs. They totally change the spectrum.

 

[kronk_1985]

Agree with Ermz. The ON/ON mix sounds more "finished" than the OFF/OFF mix.. The extremities of the transients are roped in nicely.

Nice mix too, digging it.

Perfect example of song writing & performances making the mix good.

 

[Clark Kent]

pifos_2, I'm also interested on how you achieved that bass tone. What bass? Is it DI, amp or both? Post processing?

 

[pifos_2]

Sounds like a modern "old" Incubus. The vocalist sounds exactly the same.

I love how this mix sounds. VERY professional!! Don't change anything.

Thanks. This is indeed exactly how they sound

The 4K is easily the most subtle of the VCCs consoles. Try it with the Neve or Trident and you'll definitely notice an improvement.

hum... weird that the default desk is the one that sounds the less coloured.
I'll try the Neve on my next mix.

Try not to listen to it too intently. The benefit of VCC doesn't come from an immediate 'WOW!' frequency spectrum, or front-to-back effect... it comes from the transient control & glue.

Just listen to 'both on' and 'both off' against each other, but try to listen passively. Feel how much more glued and vibey the Studer and VCC version is.

If you want an immediate 'wow this is amazing!!' effect, you want something like Nebula 4k consoles and tape programs. They totally change the spectrum.

good call Ermin. I also noticed it was kind of easier to mix after it went through the VCC. I mean easier than usual.

pifos_2, I'm also interested on how you achieved that bass tone. What bass? Is it DI, amp or both? Post processing?

it was a GL L2500 tribute. reamped through the axe-fx, used the SV bass model with the standard bass cab. going through the studer and the vcc of course. sonnox high pass @ 35. then the UAD Pultec eq (big dip @300, small dip @60), compressed in the fairchild (time constant 1) and then the pultec again (small boost @100). also sidechain compression with the kick.

it's crazy the guitar was actual a fender strat. so single coils.
the bass is really pushing nicely just behind it.

 

[Headof75]

Sorry to post late to this, but just wanted to ask where you are putting the instances of VCC in your chain?
Given that it's supposed to be a 'virtual console' I always put it before everything else so - signal > vcc > eq > comp as that's how it would work if it was hardware.
Using it like this I do hear significant differences even from track to track because you're eqing and comping the analog emulation as well as your original signal.

 

[pifos_2]

Sorry to post late to this, but just wanted to ask where you are putting the instances of VCC in your chain?
Given that it's supposed to be a 'virtual console' I always put it before everything else so - signal > vcc > eq > comp as that's how it would work if it was hardware.
Using it like this I do hear significant differences even from track to track because you're eqing and comping the analog emulation as well as your original signal.

I put it on the very first insert slot on all tracks.

 

[CharlesMonroe1989]

hmm the difference is sooooo little...

 

[Clark Kent]

hmm the difference is sooooo little...

The difference is in the transients. EQ-wise it shouldn't change much. IMO the difference in the snare and kick are not so little. What do you use for listening these clips?

 

[S-O]

Sounds like a modern "old" Incubus.

First thing that came to mind. Sounds great, it may just be because I know what's what before hand, but the mix with everything on was my favorite.

Are those guitars axe-fx too?

 

[pifos_2]

First thing that came to mind. Sounds great, it may just be because I know what's what before hand, but the mix with everything on was my favorite.

Are those guitars axe-fx too?

mostly yes. there 2 extra rhythm track that are my old recto+palmer pdi.
the 2 others and the crunchies are the axe-fx, the bass too.