Snare / Compressor

[schust]

i'm fed up with my mixes never having enough 'snap' in my snare so i'm trying something new with a compressor on the snare i've read about a few times.

it doesn't sound bad, definitely more snap - but i wonder if i'm introducing things such bad things as artifacts.

here's what i'm doing in a nutshell: very long attack 500ms, very fast release 0-5ms and very high ratio (inf) - almost i guess mimic'ing a limiter. the comp is Reaper's standard REACOMP.

i'm sure i'm overdoing something. anybody doing something like this with good results that knows what they're doing... i'd appreciate hearing about it and maybe what i'm doing right/wrong. thanks.

 

[Machinated]

try an attack of around 30-35ms, release of around 80-90ms (or whatever fits in with the song) and take a couple of dB off - seems to work pretty well for me.

 

[schust]

try an attack of around 30-35ms, release of around 80-90ms (or whatever fits in with the song) and take a couple of dB off - seems to work pretty well for me.

thanks. what kind of ratios are you using?

 

[Machinated]

depends, i guess between 3 and 5 - but its more about the reduction, see which one works better for you

 

[beechstudio]

I'm using am attack of 70ms and the fastest release setting. 4:1 knocking back about 3db.

 

[John_C]

i'm fed up with my mixes never having enough 'snap' in my snare so i'm trying something new with a compressor on the snare i've read about a few times.

it doesn't sound bad, definitely more snap - but i wonder if i'm introducing things such bad things as artifacts.

here's what i'm doing in a nutshell: very long attack 500ms, very fast release 0-5ms and very high ratio (inf) - almost i guess mimic'ing a limiter. the comp is Reaper's standard REACOMP.

i'm sure i'm overdoing something. anybody doing something like this with good results that knows what they're doing... i'd appreciate hearing about it and maybe what i'm doing right/wrong. thanks.

you're mimicking a transient controller. There's a JS transient controller for drums bundled with reaper (i think it's called transientcontroller). Just turn down the sustain control to taste

Use the compressor for normal compressing

 

[schust]

you're mimicking a transient controller. There's a JS transient controller for drums bundled with reaper (i think it's called transientcontroller). Just turn down the sustain control to taste

Use the compressor for normal compressing

yea, i think you're right, but i am also having to fight a few hard hits that are spiking things from time to time. need to tame those.

i've been mixing my current project for awhile. over that time i've tried everything from GCLIP to digitalfishphones trans to assorted others as mentioned above. it's a tough cookie to crack. on the one hand i want a very natural sounding snare - and on the other i want an almost exaggerated snap.

this all started this morning when i was listening in the car and noticed the snare almost disappears during a short double kick passage. i think the snare hits are just a tad softer at that point. i'm trying to figure out how to keep the snare more level sounding and maintain that snap. comp with makeup?

 

[colonel kurtz]

500ms(for me, at least) is wayyyyyyyyyy too late of an attack for drum compression

+1 to being between 25-30ms...that'll let the initial THWACK through, then compress the rest of the hit from there

 

[Ermz]

here's what i'm doing in a nutshell: very long attack 500ms, very fast release 0-5ms and very high ratio (inf) - almost i guess mimic'ing a limiter. the comp is Reaper's standard REACOMP.

Those att/rel settings are way off. The starting point machinated suggested is good. 20 to 30 ms for some stick thwack, and let the release stay clamped until the next hit. I default to 100ms release due to using the SSL channel strip on drums. When you consider things, 100ms is bloody fast and only the quickest of snare rolls or double-kicks are going to tickle that. So what you essentially get is a tool that ducks the volume of your snares and kicks during double-kick or snare fill passages, which is something you'd have to automate yourself in anyway! Pretty sweet.

Anyway, if you're not getting enough snap, try to use a compressor that lets you adjust the knee, or at least one that defaults to a hard knee. Try a ratio of 6 to 8 and really shave some level off. If you can't get the desired amount of snap without the sounds of overcompression kicking in then consider retracking the snare, or using a transient designer tool to accentuate the attack portion of the waveform. I use the Stillwell Transient Monster for that. I really dig it.

Also, having the attack at 500ms would make the compressor virtually ineffectual. It lets the entire waveform through before it attempts to clamp down, so it self-defeats.

 

[Splat88]

Those att/rel settings are way off. The starting point machinated suggested is good. 20 to 30 ms for some stick thwack, and let the release stay clamped until the next hit.

Ermz is right. I personally use 20-30ms attack as well, and a release that's suitable for the content of the song, but I typically use a 1ms release the get the most snap, and ensuring the compressor will release before the next snare hits on a busy drum beat with ghost notes and what not. I usually use a 5:1 ratio and gain reduce anywhere from 4 to 10dbs.

 

[schust]

thanks everybody. good stuff. definitely provides a firm starting point from which to begin on this. i've been working on it all afternoon. think i have something that will work for me. need to give the ears a break... not sure what snap is anymore.. lol...

 

[Ermz]

Also, I forgot to mention that you can grab the free Flux Bittersweet II transient designer plug-in to aid you with this. DO IT. It kicks ass, seriously.. I don't know why it's free.

@Splatt: 1ms? How do you coax 'snap' out of that? Usually using such fast attack times for me creates really useless super-fast transients that eat up headroom but don't provide any usable percussive effect. It's sort of in between compression and limiting there.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

May want to try a multiband compressor.

 

[Splat88]

Also, I forgot to mention that you can grab the free Flux Bittersweet II transient designer plug-in to aid you with this. DO IT. It kicks ass, seriously.. I don't know why it's free.

@Splatt: 1ms? How do you coax 'snap' out of that? Usually using such fast attack times for me creates really useless super-fast transients that eat up headroom but don't provide any usable percussive effect. It's sort of in between compression and limiting there.

That's right, 1ms. I know it sounds crazy but it works for me. I don't use that fast of a release for everything I mix, but I do for almost all of my own music. I think I get a much harder crack out of the snare with that quick release, but you've got to really dig in with the threshold to get it to snap hard. Like I said before, I think that 1ms release preserves the loudness of ghost notes on snares too. If I use a longer release with deep thresholds, the ghost notes just fade away after the initial snare hit.

 

[Ermz]

Wait, you said 1ms attack before and now release. Which is it?

 

[Splat88]

Wait, you said 1ms attack before and now release. Which is it?

Oh shit, sorry! I didn't write that very carefully I guess. No, not a 1ms attack! I use a 20-30ms attack and a 1ms release.

 

[schust]

can i bug you guys for a little more help on this??

i created three small samples using a few of the recommendations here.

tracks: snare sample and real snare. real snare is blended 50%. all samples have some light EQ

• snare - no processing: no comp or trans (added for perspective)
• snare - reacomp (attack:25ms, rel:5ms, ratio:4:1, ~2-3db reduction)
• snare - flux bittersweet (medium, 25% bitter, center)

which one do you think sounds the best? or are they all shite?

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=929480

thanks in advance.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Lately, I've really been digging the Rocket compressor on snare with it's ultra-fast attack.... somewhere around 50 microseconds very cool.

 

[embrace.random]

i'm fed up with my mixes never having enough 'snap' in my snare so i'm trying something new with a compressor on the snare i've read about a few times.

it doesn't sound bad, definitely more snap - but i wonder if i'm introducing things such bad things as artifacts.

here's what i'm doing in a nutshell: very long attack 500ms, very fast release 0-5ms and very high ratio (inf) - almost i guess mimic'ing a limiter. the comp is Reaper's standard REACOMP.

i'm sure i'm overdoing something. anybody doing something like this with good results that knows what they're doing... i'd appreciate hearing about it and maybe what i'm doing right/wrong. thanks.

Your attack time is too long, 500ms is overdoing it. You want to make it quite long, so the compressor doesn't squash the natural attack of the snare, but by leaving it that long you're starting to compress way after the inital attack, clamping down on the decay, by which time the decay may have already fell beneath the threshold (depending on where you have set it) so the compressor never takes effect.

Find a snare waveform. Find a rough measurement of how long the inital attack is in ms. Set the attack of the compressor to just after this.
The release; if you leave it too long, the compressor will keep attenuating gain past the threshold, which will change the dynamic envelope of the waveform. Also, depending on how close the snare hits on, it could still be attenuating/compressing into the next snare hit, meaning the first hit will be the loudest with most of its natural attack retained, but the opposite with the hits that follow.
But be careful of making it too short as you may get audible clips and maybe low-freq distortion, depending on whether you've filtered out the low-end rumble or not, I'm not too sure.

To be honest, I'm pretty new to the ins and outs of compressors, I'm learning. So you might be best taking advice from someone more experienced on here. But I hope I've helped.

ER.

 

[colonel kurtz]

i just thought i'd add that when setting compressors, i'll usually turn everything to the most extreme settings at 1st...fastest attack, longest release, low threshold, ridiculous ratio - then start backing off of settings until you get the "thwack" you want