So I'm surprised there's no thread about this yet: Israel

[Metaltastic]

After all, a thread about Georgia sprung up in no time this past summer - what are your guys thoughts on the current Israel situation? My feeling is whether or not they had a right to be there at the beginning, it's a little too late to change that now, and if Hamas is launching unprovoked attacks simply because of ideological differences, then I totally support Israeli troops going in and castrating them. But I'm also an ignoramus - enlighten me

 

[Ermz]

I get the distinct feeling that the world would be so much better off if we concentrated all the world superpowers' remaining nuclear arsenals toward pulverizing that part of the world, along with a good chunk of the Balkans (where I'm from), China, a good bit of North Korea, and select locations in Sth America. We'd still have Thailand and the pacific island countries to get all our cheap PC parts from. Perfect.

That's about the extent of my super-knowledgeable contribution to the situation.

 

[LydonB]

I dont know a lot about it either but I agree with you Metaltastic. If Hamas is just being a bunch of jackasses to Israel for their beliefs, then I think Israel has every right to go kick their ass. But I don't know the extent of everything.

The middle east is a scary place and they all put the rest of the world in serious jeopardy imo.

 

[kaomao]

both sides did shitty things all over the years, they don't deserve that place.
Israels got away from that place many many many years ago then they got back by the end of wwii and claim it's still theirs ....
Argh I hate em both they're killing each other for a fucking piece of soil

 

[Felix Neumann]

As a German I better say nothing to this situation No..serious. I always hate it, when people die!! But I don´t have enough knowledge to say more than:

STOP THIS FUCKIN´WAR !

 

[~BURNY~]

All I know is war against terrorism is a flawed concept. This situation only create more hatreed towards Israel and more terrorism which is exactly what the Hamas is expecting.

 

[CaptainK1rk]

@ Moonlapse:
Where exactly are you from?

 

[J.DavisNJ]

My views:

I support Israel 100% against Hamas. The media always sensationalizes this conflict with such keywords as "civilians", "women and children", and "disproportionate," to steer impressionable minds away from the real issue here. Sure, civilian death is always awful, but that is one of the unfortunate and often unavoidable parts of war.

Hamas brought this on themselves. The Palestinians that voted for and support Hamas brought this on themselves. I'm sure there are plenty of Palestinians that are victims of circumstance, that realize what kind of an organization Hamas is, and it is unfortunate that they have to live this way.

Hamas are cowardly enough to operate in civilian territories and to store weapons in mosques and other public places. The media loves to paint the picture of Israel being evil, and showing footage of mangled Palestinians after Israeli bombs. Why don't they show footage of suicide attacks within Israel in public places for good measure? It goes both ways.

Hamas likes to operate under the guise of a legitimate organization that cares for the good of the Palestinian people, yet they endorse suicide bombing and indoctrinate their children on Hamas TV to hate jews early on in their lives. Search youtube, you may or may not be shocked.

One can go back and forth all day to argue between who rightfully owns the land. Are we really going to have to argue far back enough to determine who should REALLY own this land? Paleolithic period, Islamic rule, crusade, Ottoman then Egyptian, then Ottoman again, then the clusterfuck afterwards!?

To me it's only sensible to focus on post-Balfour "Palestine." The fact is, the only way that peace could have been achieved in the area, would be for BOTH sides to agree on a right for both to exist, and to divide the land accordingly. Israel went for it, the majority of Palestinians did not. Israel has functioned as a nation for 60 some years, yet Hamas/a number of Palestinians still have sour grapes.

Israel has no choice in this matter. They can defend themselves from the 5,000 some rockets that have been fired at them since 2001, the countless suicide attacks, and the blind hatred of Hamas, OR they can use force to get their message across.
Regardless, Hamas will never stop and will most likely still exist if Gaza is completely destroyed. The tactic at the moment is to minimize the threat.

Yep, war is hell...and unfortunate. But doing nothing would cause even bigger problems for Israelis.

My $.02, phew I'm done!

-Joe

 

[skuller]

i have a good friend who's been on 2 tours of iraq with the us army. he has told me that israel has had hostile presense in palestine, against palestines will, and against the geneva convention.

the reason we in the us do not hear this side of the story is, according to this same friend, because israel owns the us media. i suppose not israel directly, but prominent israelis with a considerable amount of money. the reason the un & us do not call israel on their clear breaches of the geneva convention, is because obviously we are all so heavily reliant on their crude oil.

so, i'm not sure if this is true or not, but my friend cameron with 2 tours under his belt (and a naturally questioning mind) has shared this opinion with me, and it's the only one i've heard anyway. not like i can go verify it even if it is true. not like someone could prove it isn't true even if it isn't.

i'll tell ya though, on 2 or 3 january of this year, i met the first israeli i've ever met. that same day i saw 75+ us tanks maybe 3 miles from my flat. now of course i don't think the incidents are releted, but i've never seen tanks just hanging out around anywhere in my city. sure i've seen them at air force bases, national guard bases, etc.. but never just out somewhere, seemingly random places. and there were a lot of them.

nothing's happened since, and those tanks are gone, and i'll tell ya that israeli is one of the best drummers i've ever met, albeit not into metal too much.

 

[skuller]

i read the post before mine after mine was up.

i'm led to believe that the hamas is calling israel on their BS and doing everything they can to stop their tyranny.

i have no idea though, really.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

i have a good friend who's been on 2 tours of iraq with the us army. he has told me that israel has had hostile presense in palestine, against their will, and against the geneva convention.

the reason we in the us do not hear this side of the story is, according to this same friend, because israel owns the us media. i suppose not israel directly, but prominent israelis with a considerable amount of money. the reason the un & us do not call israel on their clear breaches of the geneva convention, is because obviously we are all so heavily reliant on their crude oil.

so, i'm not sure if this is true or not, but my friend cameron with 2 tours under his belt (and a naturally questioning mind) has shared this opinion with me, and it's the only one i've heard anyway. not like i can go verify it even if it is true. not like someone could prove it isn't true even if it isn't.

i'll tell ya though, on 2 or 3 january of this year, i met the first israeli i've ever met. that same day i saw 75+ us tanks maybe 3 miles from my flat. now of course i don't think the incidents are releted, but i've never seen tanks just hanging out around anywhere in my city. sure i've seen them at air force bases, national guard bases, etc.. but never just out somewhere, seemingly random places. and there were a lot of them.

nothing's happened since, and those tanks are gone, and i'll tell ya that israeli is one of the best drummers i've ever met, albeit not into metal too much.

Yeah, those types of opinions will always be questionable, because obviously neither of us were there like your friend was.

It's always an option to argue if the US has an ulterior motive or not (the more interesting and news-worthy option being YES of COURSE!), but we do not know.

I'm going based on the history that I am aware of. It's the only way to have a truly individual opinion and not base your beliefs on hear say or conspiracy theories.

Also, friends of mine that are much deeper into foreign politics than myself always provide me with different viewpoints to consider, one of which has lived in Israel.

I think we can all agree on the blatant hate that Hamas breeds though.

-Joe

 

[-Gavin-]

IN THE RED CORNER! BRINGING DOWN THE HOUSE! GETTING ALLAH UP IN YO MOMMA'S FACE! THE MUSLIMS!
IN THE BLUE, KEEPING IT HEBREW! BACK FROM WORLD WAR II! WE HAVE THE JEWS!

LEEETSSS GEEET READY TO RUMMMBBBLLLE!

 

[skuller]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation

all i think i know, is that if it weren't for the absolutely asinine god that humans created, it's likely no one would care who owns the land, or "has right to" that land. because that's what hamas wants, they want to replace palestinian peoples and the state where israel is. "holy land" or whatever. and i don't know the motives behind israel becoming their own entity.

Israeli Independence from British Mandate of Palestine - Declaration May 14, 1948.

 

[skuller]

IN THE RED CORNER! BRINGING DOWN THE HOUSE! GETTING ALLAH UP IN YO MOMMA'S FACE! THE MUSLIMS!
IN THE BLUE, KEEPING IT HEBREW! BACK FROM WORLD WAR II! WE HAVE THE JEWS!

LEEETSSS GEEET READY TO RUMMMBBBLLLE!

for real. funny how something so simple can be applied literally to what's going on. all in the name of the g word.

dude alestorm is coming to my city soon and all i can think, even though i've never talked to you even here, is that it's a bummer you're not going to be here to drink a brew, too.

 

[STINNETT]

Those crazy mother fuckers better learn how to live together before Jesus comes back!

 

[Chryst Krispies]

Those crazy mother fuckers better learn how to live together before Jesus comes back!

 

[STINNETT]

In all seriousness, Hamas is surely a bunch of half-cocked psychopathic nutbars, and Israel probably has plenty of motivation to fuck with them pretty hard. But I think the Palastinians probably have plenty of reasons to hate the shit out of Israel too, long before Hamas ever came around.

So the opinion I arrive at is, I don't give a shit if they all kill each other. I got no reason to support either one of them.

 

[Metaltastic]

Yeah, I guess that's really what it boils down to, for now it seems a mostly internal conflict, but has the US (officially) gotten involved yet? And do you guys think we will? Cuz Israel seems pretty capable of handling themselves so far...

 

[J.DavisNJ]

Yeah, I guess that's really what it boils down to, for now it seems a mostly internal conflict, but has the US (officially) gotten involved yet? And do you guys think we will? Cuz Israel seems pretty capable of handling themselves so far...

At the moment, we are basically only involved in the "peace talks" with other nations.

Obama will have a lot on his plate, that's for sure. He's basically staying quiet on the issue until he's in office. It's a bit of a mistake in my opinion. Yes, he isn't the president yet, but it will happen in a matter of weeks, so why not let the international community know of your view, and your plan?

And yep, Israel has one of the strongest militaries in the world. Of course they have had help from allies like us, but it's mighty impressive when you consider they are about the size of NJ.

-Joe

 

[SocialNumb]

Don't know much on the subject, save to say we all know what is to blame. I just ran across this.