So I'm surprised there's no thread about this yet: Israel

[Black neon bob]

I dont have too much on the subject since it's politics and can't be bothered discussing it.. but i have seen pictures which i can't show here, of children mutilated and burned alive in gaza because of the bombings.
And just before i saw these pictures i saw a video of jewish children laughing and being all jolly while writing text and paint on those very same bombs that killed the children in the gaza.. how f%ing sick is that i ask you?

 

[J.DavisNJ]

I dont have too much on the subject since it's politics and can't be bothered discussing it.. but i have seen pictures which i can't show here, of children mutilated and burned alive in gaza because of the bombings.
And just before i saw these pictures i saw a video of jewish children laughing and being all jolly while writing text and paint on those very same bombs that killed the children in the gaza.. how f%ing sick is that i ask you?

About as sick as a person in a bunny rabbit costume speaking of eating jews on a children's tv show. Hamas TV of course.

-Joe

 

[Glenn Fricker]

For there to be any sort of peaceful resolution of what is a land deal, for crying out loud! there needs to be a serious campaign against religion in the area.
This problem could have been solved ages ago if it weren't for the clergy on both sides throwing gasoline on the fire at every opportunity. Funny how they never get tired of seeing young people's guts splattered all over their town's roads. ...and how they never tire of finding yet more martyrs.

Until the clergy is silenced, there will be war without end in the region, because neither religion can accept the existence of the other. The simplest solution is to convince people to stop going to religious services & believe in themselves instead.

Human beings are capable of such amazing things, but you'd never hear that out of the mouth of a cleric. "God helped you" would be his reasoning. What a load of crap.

Jew, Christian, Muslim, they're all just meaningless labels. I'd rather be a "human being."


'nuff said.

 

[-Gavin-]

dude alestorm is coming to my city soon and all i can think, even though i've never talked to you even here, is that it's a bummer you're not going to be here to drink a brew, too.

I'll give you $10 if you take out the midget with a bottle rocket!

 

[SocialNumb]

Hate, a worthless emotion. IMO.

 

[mick thompson]

hear the latest news? the french president asked for the war to stop and they said it would in 5 days time under one condition. that nato takes over and lets turkey run the show - personally im half turkish (my dad is a turk) and its the last thing i want. turkey already has problems with the kurds - its just more fucking problems to be landed on an already struggling economy.

 

[colonel kurtz]

In all seriousness, Hamas is surely a bunch of half-cocked psychopathic nutbars, and Israel probably has plenty of motivation to fuck with them pretty hard. But I think the Palastinians probably have plenty of reasons to hate the shit out of Israel too, long before Hamas ever came around.

So the opinion I arrive at is, I don't give a shit if they all kill each other. I got no reason to support either one of them.

this post = backed hard

what it really comes down to is that the leaders on both sides have used their historical and religious conflicts in order to further their own personal interests...and in doing so, both sides have committed all kinds of atrocities against each other, to the point that their hatred is exists on a level that us sheltered americans/euros can probably never even begin to understand

in the end, shit's not gonna stop until one side has been decimated, so let 'em go at it...

 

[theblackmoon]

I am the one, Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.

I twist the truth, I rule the world, my crown is called deceit
I am the emperor of lies, you grovel at my feet
I rob you and I slaughter you, your downfall is my gain
And still you play the sycophant and revel in you pain
And all my promises are lies, all my love is hate
I am the politician, and I decide your fate

I march before a martyred world, an army for the fight
I speak of great heroic days, of victory and might
I hold a banner drenched in blood, I urge you to be brave
I lead you to your destiny, I lead you to your grave
Your bones will build my palaces, your eyes will stud my crown
For I am Mars, the god of war, and I will cut you down.

 

[Notuern]

I honestly don't give a fuck which side "looses", but im glad it finally blew up.
Seriously, this tension has been building up for so long now, and god knows how much worse it would have been if this shit started to happen in ten years, instead of now.

 

[Razzee]

There's no right side of war
- The Human Abstract

 

[smy1]

Watch the movie "Syriana" with George Clooney. It will give lots of food for thought about all sides involved and all motivations. One of the best movies to ever come out of Hollywood.

As a half-Palestinian/half-German musician who has toured Israel and (despite this seemingly ultimate Anti-Israel heritage) received nothing but love from Israeli kids at the show and parties - and then seen incredible shit (like getting chased by a Rottweiler cause you are thought to be a Jew or getting told that one shouldn't go into that area cause it's full of "dirty arabs"), I am certain it is a matter of education (as always). The majority of somewhat educated Israelis and Palestinians would get along fine. It seems to be just a problem of government and clergy using the uneducated parts of the population for their agenda.

As Seneca said way back in the day: "Religion is considered to be true by the uneducated, false by the educated and useful by the government!". Very true!

I won't say anything about the injustice of the occupation because, quite frankly, after 20 years of discussing it, I can't be bothered. For everyone who thinks they have a clear view on the whole conflict: if you don't read at least 3-5000 pages by 8-10 radically different authors on the subject, you won't know shit. Everyone's view on this is totally skewed - simply by the insane amounts of detail that is influencing the problem. For example: one of the main reasons for the involvement of the US being the immense military pressure put on Israel by the surrounding arabic states. All of them would have completely flattened Israel decades ago if it wasn't for the protective power of the USA.

The only way this conflict will ever end is a mass exodus of all parties involved. I say we move the Israelis to Tibet and the Tibetans to the Middle East and then the Palestinians to some part of Argentina. Then the Tibetans have the bullshit "holy land" (which they won't care for) and Israelis/Palestinians can fuck about with mountains and prime Argentinian beef.

Enough of this. I'll go watch Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles. At least the sides of good and evil are clearly drawn here.

 

[Wolfeman]

Just remember.... Israel was following an Egyptian led cease fire agreement... They honored it for quite some time.... During this cease fire they continued to get suicide bombs and rocket attacks, killing their people. They gave Hamas an ultimatum, just like any of our countries would have. Hamas continued, and Israel did the only thing they could- show em who's boss.

All of our 'western' leaders would do the same thing.... We did....

 

[smy1]

Wolfeman: with all due respect, the conflict has been going on a lot longer than this.

As I said before: It's not really worth discussing because the discussions lead to nothing. Trust me, I've had to discuss the whole situation for the past 20 years and nothing substantial ever comes out ...

 

[Notuern]

Wolfeman: with all due respect, the conflict has been going on a lot longer than this.

As I said before: It's not really worth discussing because the discussions lead to nothing. Trust me, I've had to discuss the whole situation for the past 20 years and nothing substantial ever comes out ...

+1000

As you said, this conflict is so old and complex, that its almost impossible to get something out of discussing it.

But as i said earlier here in the thread, at least it fuckin' happened already.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

smy1,

Good to get a different perspective on the whole thing, even if you didn't want to go into details. Rather than going back however many generations to get at the root of this problem, I'm merely focusing on the now and what can or should be done. Like I said earlier, there really is no reason to go back generations and point out who should rightfully occupy this land or who is right in this situation or that situation.

The main focus right now is to have SOME sort of lull in the fighting. I do believe Israel is warranted in their offensive, but of course no one likes to see innocent lives lost on either side. Violence is unfortunately necessary, but it's such a volatile region with years and years of hate that it will take somewhat of a miracle for there to ever be true peace. Whether a lull in the fighting is achieved by Israel's military might, Hamas being totally destroyed, or by a pseudo or not so pseudo ceasefire, it's all better than constant bloodshed.

Cheers dude,

-Joe

 

[smy1]

Hey Joe!

The problem is that Hamas can not be completely destroyed. Just like Al Quaeda can't be completely destroyed.

These organisations have to stop existing either because they choose to or because they find zero support in the population. Neither will ever happen with the way things are.

See it like this: if you were poor, lived under bad conditions, were unable to read, let alone use the internet and you were fed propaganda all your life after your brother and your baby sister were killed by the "evil enemy" - you'd have no chance and no choice but believe the propaganda. Especially when you receive support (either moral, religious or material) from the propaganda sources.

Exactly that scenario is beautifully laid out in "Syriana". Everyone should really get this movie. It's as suspenseful as any Hollywood thriller, but much deeper than you'd think. I even watched it three times because there were so many valid points to ponder.

If you watch it (or already watched it) pay attention to the body language and expression on the face of the young guy who drives the boat with the rocket/bomb in the end. This scene alone is worth more than 100 discussion when it comes to understanding an important core problem of this big conflict. I don't wanna give away more to not spoil the movie in case you haven't seen it.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

Hey Joe!

The problem is that Hamas can not be completely destroyed. Just like Al Quaeda can't be completely destroyed.

These organisations have to stop existing either because they choose to or because they find zero support in the population. Neither will ever happen with the way things are.

See it like this: if you were poor, lived under bad conditions, were unable to read, let alone use the internet and you were fed propaganda all your life after your brother and your baby sister were killed by the "evil enemy" - you'd have no chance and no choice but believe the propaganda. Especially when you receive support (either moral, religious or material) from the propaganda sources.

Exactly that scenario is beautifully laid out in "Syriana". Everyone should really get this movie. It's as suspenseful as any Hollywood thriller, but much deeper than you'd think. I even watched it three times because there were so many valid points to ponder.

If you watch it (or already watched it) pay attention to the body language and expression on the face of the young guy who drives the boat with the rocket/bomb in the end. This scene alone is worth more than 100 discussion when it comes to understanding an important core problem of this big conflict. I don't wanna give away more to not spoil the movie in case you haven't seen it.

Hey man,

While I do see what you're getting at, I also believe that there are a significant number of Palestinians that realize what Hamas is and choose not to support them. But, like you said, those people are mainly the educated that will probably interact with Israelis and understand that the rift between them is pointless and needs to end.

Also, you can consider that there might be a number of poor Palestinians that also realize this about Hamas and choose to either fight it, or relocate. I think there are many ways to consider these points.

In the end, you are right though. Before the international community condemns Hamas to the point of them not receiving ANY support, this shite will continue. It's unfortunate but true.

I will check out Syriana when I get the chance.

Cheers,

-Joe

 

[Metaltastic]

+1 for the Syriana rec., great movie! Don't expect to get everything the first view (or second), but that's kind of the idea, I think, to illustrate how fucking confusing everything is

 

[colonel kurtz]

Just remember.... Israel was following an Egyptian led cease fire agreement... They honored it for quite some time.... During this cease fire they continued to get suicide bombs and rocket attacks, killing their people. They gave Hamas an ultimatum, just like any of our countries would have. Hamas continued, and Israel did the only thing they could- show em who's boss.

All of our 'western' leaders would do the same thing.... We did....

yea, but it's not like israel's hands are clean in this mess either, ya know?

in all, i think that the only REAL solution is...well...fuck it...after typing a whole bunch of shit out, i really don't think there is one

 

[Chryst Krispies]

in all, i think that the only REAL solution is...well...fuck it... i really don't think there is one

+1uke: