So Im wasted

[spirit crusher]

and I find mysself haveing no shirt on and only thinking to myself, everything ive ever done was to get laid ever since ive known the action of fornication.

Discuss.

 

[ARC150]

Topic closed yet?

Honestly, the male drive for fornication as the impetus for many, if not all, actions is an interesting topic (NB: Not the actual assertion of our poster; but I work with what I've got...).

I think there is an arguable case for the paradigm:
Argument: Most of the advances in our species's history have been perpetrated by males.
Argument: The male's main drive is for women.
Conclusion: Most of the advances of our species are due, directly or indirectly, to the male's desire for females.

Yes, the argument is roughly crafted at best - but so was the topic's poster...

 

[Norsemaiden]

Topic closed yet?

Honestly, the male drive for fornication as the impetus for many, if not all, actions is an interesting topic (NB: Not the actual assertion of our poster; but I work with what I've got...).

I think there is an arguable case for the paradigm:
Argument: Most of the advances in our species's history have been perpetrated by males.
Argument: The male's main drive is for women.
Conclusion: Most of the advances of our species are due, directly or indirectly, to the male's desire for females.

Yes, the argument is roughly crafted at best - but so was the topic's poster...

Yes, this seems a reasonable observation. Sigmund Freud is well known for attributing many "normal" behaviours to deeper (subconscious) sexual drives. Much of Freud's work is worthless, but this idea makes sense.

"the sexual instincts are remarkable for their plasticity, for the facility with which they can change their aim...for the ease with which they can substitute one form of gratification for another" (Freud 1938)

The sex drive exists for the basic purpose of the survival of the species. Social morals influence how this manifests itself.

Freud did admit that not everything we do is to do with sex, saying: "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" (regardless of what use Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinski did with one).

Male achievement is the focus of ARC150's post though, so it is not quite the same as what Freud was saying.

Males have the urge to compete for females and this instinct could be subliminated into advances in mankind's achievements. It is not so much that women would lack the ability to do certain tasks or to be creative in certain ways, but rather that women don't have this subconcious sex drive urging them to display their abilities to males. But then why do a minority of women excell in these male dominated areas also? Even as a woman myself I am not really sure. Is there advantage to a woman's genes to also be inventive or creative in these ways? Could be.

When you look at the great masters of art, philosophy, science, etc who are mainly men, it is striking that so many have not reproduced at all. It is as if the act of creating has in a way replaced their sex drive. Or the sex drive has been absorbed and sated by their creativity.

I know an artist who says that for him, the act of painting is passionate and sensual, no matter whether he is painting a nude or painting a tree. And there is an orgasmic euphoria at its conclusion. So the sex drive is responsible for this creation, and yet the desire for another human is nothing to do with it. That goes back to what Freud said about sexual instincts substituting one form of gratification for another.

 

[hibernal_dream]

Interesting observation - so the sex drive has other uses beyond impelling us to procreate. I've sometimes considered that it might be an advantage to be without sexual urges, as it consumes time which I could use doing something more productive. You might just have changed my views on this, i'm not sure. But if the sex drive is responsible for our achievements, it seems that any act which satisfies our sexual desires is disadvantageous since it temporarily removes the sex drive, a tool which could be harnessed and put to better use! Interesting! Have to think about this one some more!

 

[speed]

Topic closed yet?

Honestly, the male drive for fornication as the impetus for many, if not all, actions is an interesting topic (NB: Not the actual assertion of our poster; but I work with what I've got...).

I think there is an arguable case for the paradigm:
Argument: Most of the advances in our species's history have been perpetrated by males.
Argument: The male's main drive is for women.
Conclusion: Most of the advances of our species are due, directly or indirectly, to the male's desire for females.

Yes, the argument is roughly crafted at best - but so was the topic's poster...

You saved this thread from being closed.

I cannot disagree except for Norsemaiden's comments. Indeed, it seems in the majority of cases, greatness is acheived by males who replace sex with creativeness. Perhaps this should be known as the George Costanza syndrome (in honor of the episode where George stops having sex, and becomes a brilliant man: learning portugeuse, history, science, his eruditon and vocabulary become exceptionally large--in short a classic Seinfeld episode).

 

[speed]

Yes, this seems a reasonable observation. Sigmund Freud is well known for attributing many "normal" behaviours to deeper (subconscious) sexual drives. Much of Freud's work is worthless, but this idea makes sense.

"the sexual instincts are remarkable for their plasticity, for the facility with which they can change their aim...for the ease with which they can substitute one form of gratification for another" (Freud 1938)

The sex drive exists for the basic purpose of the survival of the species. Social morals influence how this manifests itself.

Freud did admit that not everything we do is to do with sex, saying: "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" (regardless of what use Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinski did with one).

Male achievement is the focus of ARC150's post though, so it is not quite the same as what Freud was saying.

Males have the urge to compete for females and this instinct could be subliminated into advances in mankind's achievements. It is not so much that women would lack the ability to do certain tasks or to be creative in certain ways, but rather that women don't have this subconcious sex drive urging them to display their abilities to males. But then why do a minority of women excell in these male dominated areas also? Even as a woman myself I am not really sure. Is there advantage to a woman's genes to also be inventive or creative in these ways? Could be.

When you look at the great masters of art, philosophy, science, etc who are mainly men, it is striking that so many have not reproduced at all. It is as if the act of creating has in a way replaced their sex drive. Or the sex drive has been absorbed and sated by their creativity.

I know an artist who says that for him, the act of painting is passionate and sensual, no matter whether he is painting a nude or painting a tree. And there is an orgasmic euphoria at its conclusion. So the sex drive is responsible for this creation, and yet the desire for another human is nothing to do with it. That goes back to what Freud said about sexual instincts substituting one form of gratification for another.

I think it interesting what classical man, and classical mythology/religion had to say about sex in relation to creation etc. Apulius wrote the great Latin novel The Golden Ass, (well the only one surviving), in which a lusty young man goes about having amorous adventures, gets turned into Ass because of it, witnesses more sexual adventures etc from the totally innoucous view as an Ass, and then is saved by joining the cult of Isis--and is thus granted spirirtual and artistic purity. The interesting thing here, is sex is displayed as totally natural and fun, but if one wants real fulfillment, one must sacrifice sex. In fact, many myths (or Joseph Campbell), have roughly the same story, presented in different ways: young man becomes a man after sex with a woman (or some other symbolic representation, and then seeks transcendence with the one, or something similar.

 

[Sacred Profane]

The way I see it the problem isn't sex.
The problem is time. One can either spend time getting sex, or spend the same amount of time doing something creative. Women are known to be real time hogs, so having a girlfriend means little time for other things. Being single trying to get laid also means wasiting a lot of time usually.

 

[speed]

The way I see it the problem isn't sex.
The problem is time. One can either spend time getting sex, or spend the same amount of time doing something creative. Women are known to be real time hogs, so having a girlfriend means little time for other things. Being single trying to get laid also means wasiting a lot of time usually.

Tell me about it. Hours upon hours wasted spent talking about nothing, or snuggling.

 

[BloodSword]

If you have a girl and your not getting any, maybe you have to look inward to realize the problem. Once again, experience is the best teacher. If a man is kind, considerate, thoughtful and open to his significant other, then having sex is a given. Combining sexual prowess with the abov-mentioned, will no doubt lead to rousing success. As a matter of fact, she may become insatiable. Then what. Stop complaining and be thankful. Believe me, women require sex. They just send different signals. Learn them. Also find the time.

 

[speed]

If you have a girl and your not getting any, maybe you have to look inward to realize the problem. Once again, experience is the best teacher. If a man is kind, considerate, thoughtful and open to his significant other, then having sex is a given. Combining sexual prowess with the abov-mentioned, will no doubt lead to rousing success. As a matter of fact, she may become insatiable. Then what. Stop complaining and be thankful. Believe me, women require sex. They just send different signals. Learn them. Also find the time.

I dont think this was at all the point. The point is how much time is wasted to procure sex. I know personally, Ive never been able to get sex without at least first going to dinner, movie, show, coffee, etc. In my experience women want a night out etc, and then they will give you intimacy (almost a trade or something) But, perhaps I am no Lothario, and you are Bloodsword, and women just pop over to your apartment, fuck, and then leave, so you can go about your evening or day.

And yes, I think sex is actually more important to women. They seem to place more importance into it then men. Of course there are exceptions.

 

[Hubster]

I have a few thoughts on this horribly started topic:

- Evolution of moral systems, especially in the latter half of the 20th century, has blurred the line for fornication on an animal/logically core level to the point where these days it seems like we're heading for a conservative approach of "oh how could you do such a forbidden thing!". The "games" played on acquiring sex are a result of our apparent social & moral evolution (that's not to say that I myself regard fornicating as a low-level or basic act in this manner)

- the theory mentioned a few posts above regarding the sexual urge being replaced by intellectual power is a good point: the genuises of the human race are often mad (Hitler, Mozart), or something along this line. Take for example Steven Hawkings... I strongly believe that was he physically able, he wouldn't have the amazing intellectual intelligence he has. Perhaps it could be seen as nature's own perverse and distorted version of achieving balance within lifeforms.

 

[Norsemaiden]

I have a few thoughts on this horribly started topic:

- Evolution of moral systems, especially in the latter half of the 20th century, has blurred the line for fornication on an animal/logically core level to the point where these days it seems like we're heading for a conservative approach of "oh how could you do such a forbidden thing!". The "games" played on acquiring sex are a result of our apparent social & moral evolution (that's not to say that I myself regard fornicating as a low-level or basic act in this manner)

- the theory mentioned a few posts above regarding the sexual urge being replaced by intellectual power is a good point: the genuises of the human race are often mad (Hitler, Mozart), or something along this line. Take for example Steven Hawkings... I strongly believe that was he physically able, he wouldn't have the amazing intellectual intelligence he has. Perhaps it could be seen as nature's own perverse and distorted version of achieving balance within lifeforms.

I think Stephen Hawking is fairly "physically able". He left his first wife for his nurse (who now allegedly physically abuses him) and I think there was even a story about her taking him to a lapdancing club.

Scientific discovery may not be better than sex, but the satisfaction lasts longer, says Professor Stephen Hawking.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1755683.stm

And a headline from the Mirror newspaper (if you google "Stephen Hawking sex" ) has some kind of scandal about a nurse looking into his bedroom and seeing his naked wife having sex with him (while he was married to the other nurse or something).
Sounds like he is quite physically able in some ways!

This problem about wasting hours of time chatting pointlessly. Well, if you were talking about interesting things together, discussing ideas that neither of you had heard of and inspiring eachother then it wouldn't be wasted time.
That's the ideal, but may be it is not so easy to find someone like that.

 

[Hubster]

This problem about wasting hours of time chatting pointlessly. Well, if you were talking about interesting things together, discussing ideas that neither of you had heard of and inspiring eachother then it wouldn't be wasted time.
That's the ideal, but may be it is not so easy to find someone like that.

Could you rewrite this bit? Its kind of disjointed... Are you referring to a post earlier than mine?

 

[speed]

I think Stephen Hawking is fairly "physically able". He left his first wife for his nurse (who now allegedly physically abuses him) and I think there was even a story about her taking him to a lapdancing club.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/1755683.stm

And a headline from the Mirror newspaper (if you google "Stephen Hawking sex" ) has some kind of scandal about a nurse looking into his bedroom and seeing his naked wife having sex with him (while he was married to the other nurse or something).
Sounds like he is quite physically able in some ways!

This problem about wasting hours of time chatting pointlessly. Well, if you were talking about interesting things together, discussing ideas that neither of you had heard of and inspiring eachother then it wouldn't be wasted time.
That's the ideal, but may be it is not so easy to find someone like that.

I thought we were all originally joking about the wasting time comments, but they turned serious. Im reminded of Stoicism as I think about this thread.

Honestly women I know, would rather not talk philosophy, political/current events, literature/art, before foreplay or sex. Then again, 99% of the populace would rather not talk about these things either.

 

[Norsemaiden]

Could you rewrite this bit? Its kind of disjointed... Are you referring to a post earlier than mine?

Sorry Hubster! I was referring to what Speed had said earlier when I wrote that. And I hope I didn't seem to be arguing with you about Hawking, it was just funny to think he actually is very sexually active!

But we are all going to have to rethink some of our conclusions now because look what I just found:

Hot stuff: why we just can't resist those artistic types who bewitch and betray us
Dr Thomas Stuttaford

Science confirms what we've always suspected: creative people are the most successful lovers

Two recent reports on human nature were all too evidently accurate in their conclusions. It did appear that people whose interests were creative rather than sporting, even if they were not the proud possessors of well-honed, muscled bodies, were every bit as randy and successful with the opposite sex as athletes. What the aesthetes lacked physically was evidently compensated for by a creative imagination

Well-educated, successful professional people whose success rests on their ability as artists, reviewers or writers, typical of the Cork Street aficionados, had between two and three times the number of sexual partners as did people of similar intellectual ability but in professions that were more prosaic

.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,8124-2278283,00.html

Also,

Study in Royal Society journal on link between creativity and mating success
Proceedings of the Royal Society B: Biological Sciences
Schizotypy, creativity and mating success in humans by Dr D Nettle and Ms HT Keenoo (rspb.2005.3349) Biologists have puzzled over how the genetic variants that predispose people to schizophrenia persist in the human gene pool, given that the effects of the disorder are so serious. A possible solution is the idea that these same variants can also enhance artistic creativity. Artistic creativity in turn has been hypothesized to increase sexual attractiveness. We investigated these ideas in 425 poets, artists and members of the public. We found that poets and artists share some (but not all) personality characteristics with schizophrenia patients, and, moreover, that they have more sexual partners than average. Thus, some of the personality traits predisposing to schizophrenia can actually be evolutionarily advantageous by increasing mating success. Contact: Dr D Nettle, Psychology, Brain and Behaviour, University of Newcastle, Henry Wellcome Building, NEWCASTLE, NE2 4HH

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-11/rs-sir112805.php

Of course its a well known fact that musicians have a lot of interest in and from the opposite sex, but this shows that it applies to other artists as well. However I don't think this data applies to scientists or philosophers.

 

[BloodSword]

I dont think this was at all the point. The point is how much time is wasted to procure sex. I know personally, Ive never been able to get sex without at least first going to dinner, movie, show, coffee, etc. In my experience women want a night out etc, and then they will give you intimacy (almost a trade or something) But, perhaps I am no Lothario, and you are Bloodsword, and women just pop over to your apartment, fuck, and then leave, so you can go about your evening or day.

And yes, I think sex is actually more important to women. They seem to place more importance into it then men. Of course there are exceptions.

Speed, I stand corrected, I did seem to miss the point. But, wining and dining a woman, well, isn't that part of the courting(mating) process. It's the hunt. I know many men, myself included when I was younger that the "hunt' as it were, was the attraction. Once the "hunt" was over and the "woman" was conquered, the lustre wore off. She was no longer sexually interesting, time to move on to the next one. I divulged more about my younger personal life than I wanted to. Anyway, I believe it's part of the male nature to pursue. it always seemed natural to me. So, taking the time to procure sex is vital to the accomplishment. Would'nt you agree? No, women do not come over and "fuck" me and leave. I like to think that the woman I associate with and myself are more civilized than that. HAHA. But, once upon a time, I always had female companionship. As I have grown and hopefully matured, I have come to realize that woman are the most beautiful aspect of a man's life. Ask yourself this; What do you call seeing a gorgeous woman in a bathing suit? Well, I call it simply one of the best pleasures there is to being a man. But, it does go much deeper than that.

 

[Sacred Profane]

"What do you call seeing a gorgeous woman in a bathing suit? "

It depends on the woman