so, who wants to see Tookie get nuked?

[Claws of Perdition]

I'd fight him

 

[NAD]

course, not like i have a good alternative to retribution. i mean life imprisonment is more humane in one way, more tortuous in another. random lobotomy is pretty fucked up, A Clockwork Orange probably wouldn't work, ummm...

actually, i think if nobody did anything dickly for the rest of their lives, the world would work out just fine. that oughtta be easy to implement.

 

[KILL TULLY]

god dammit i want one!!!

My girlfriend has that in her room.

 

[cthulufhtagn]

Well, at least that's a consistent position, which I can respect, but respectfully disagree with as well.

When did I indicate that wasn't my position as well? Did what I say about his acts since his incarceration indicate IN ANY WAY an approval of his criminal actions? Is it that wrong to propose that maybe he's actually (god forbid) helping the community? No, it is fucking not. Perhaps, contrary to your standard "bla bla bla hollywood bla bla I'm functionally retarded" retort, I'm suggesting that DESPITE his heinous crimes he still has something to offer, regardless of his motives.

Perhaps I need to restate:

yea there's not much doubt in my mind that the guy's done some shit worthy of considerable punishment

I'm only going to say this one time, so listen up you fucking douchebag:
Don't you ever put words in my mouth again.

Just another tough-guy asshole trying to pick a fight. Go jack off to Rambo.

 

[Russell]

while im not so sure i agree with the death penalty, he did kill (at the VERY least) 4 people, and my tax $$$ did go to keeping him fed and clothed and paid all his appeals and they still decided his ass is guilty, so i guess we havin fried negro tonight!

And it's been proved in the US that putting somebody to death costs more than shoving them in jail for life, so the monetary argument is null and void.

I'm with NAD on this one, I really, really don't care what the person has done, I am 100% opposed to the death penalty. It's just so... wrong. Surely letting someone rot in jail for life is just as bad, and - for example - this guy probably died (was refused clemency) just so Arnie can maintain the conservative vote.

 

[lizard]

so what's the difference between this guy and Varg?

personally, I find it amazing how many criminals find religion and remorse after they get caught. Life's a bitch, for sure. Somehow, tho, I doubt if Lizard or Nad killed someone there would be this hue and cry like with that Abu Jamal or whatever his name is.

 

[Hell Mike]

so what's the difference between this guy and Varg?

Don't really know what this has to do with anything, but Varg killed one dude (Who allegedly came at him with a knife - self defense) and Varg lives in Norway (a big reason for his relatively light sentence as seen from an american point of view). This dude here is a gangzta nigga who gunned down four people for the hell of it unless I've gotten the story wrong. And I think the whole idea of punishment for crime is pretty stupid, it's not like it really helps, of course generally speaking. Rehabilitation and making sure the crimes never happen in the first place is where the effort should go if the dudes in charge want to see some change, but maybe it's too late for you americans.

 

[lizard]

we only have Varg's testimony that it was self defense...from what I've read, Varg and another dude went to Euronymous's house to kill him. I wouldn't exactly call Varg the most stable and reliable of witnesses

but as it turns out, I'm not in favor of capital punishment...make these fucks work making license plates and shit. it's like that mexican dude they executed down in Texas, and only a couple weeks ago they said, whoops, someone else confessed, turns out he wasn't a murderer after all! Wheeee!

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

um yea just a reminder that the dude has actually done some work for organizations opposing gang violence and has written books speaking out against it

Oh, well, I didn't realize that writing a fucking book ought to give you a pardon for FUCKING KILLING FOUR PEOPLE.

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

NAD, in the nicest possible way, you're a faggot (on this topic).

 

[Nate The Great]

While I don't think the death penalty is "wrong", I wouldn't care if it was abolished. How can some of you guys think the death penalty is wrong? Since when do some of you believe in such high morals? I don't give a shit, personally. Does that make me evil?

Explain why the death penalty is "wrong". I'm just curious. I'm not trying to start an argument. I can understand that the death penalty is a very primitive form of punishment, but I don't see how it can be wrong.

Russell: Putting somebody to death is only more expensive if certain states (California) where it takes MANY, MANY years of appeals before somebody can die. In states like Texas it's much cheaper to put somebody to death, than it is to put them in prison for life.

 

[Conspicuously Absent]

Why the death penalty was wrong: Guy was in prison up here in Canada (no death penalty here) for multiple life sentences. After about 20 something years in jail and some failed appeals, they found new evidence, and when looking into it, they're new suspect confessed. Buddy in jail hadn't done shit.

No whether that mammoth mother fucker did whatever he did or not, double standards, however nice, are incorrect. Now do you want to nuke some bastard only to discover "oops, we fucked up?".

Since when do some of you believe in such high morals?

Since I was born. I only hate people, but hardly believe in killing or unfair treatment. Does that make me un-metal? So be it. See if I care about labels and stereo types. Hail satan, jesus, jews and all your moms.

 

[Russell]

While I don't think the death penalty is "wrong", I wouldn't care if it was abolished. How can some of you guys think the death penalty is wrong? Since when do some of you believe in such high morals? I don't give a shit, personally. Does that make me evil?

Explain why the death penalty is "wrong". I'm just curious. I'm not trying to start an argument. I can understand that the death penalty is a very primitive form of punishment, but I don't see how it can be wrong.

Russell: Putting somebody to death is only more expensive if certain states (California) where it takes MANY, MANY years of appeals before somebody can die. In states like Texas it's much cheaper to put somebody to death, than it is to put them in prison for life.

Your last point is even more worrying, considering in Texas they've cut down on the appeals processes just to avoid that statistic being true

In answer to your question, I prefer not to see it is "right" or "wrong", it's one hell of a complex issue just to polarise it like that. But I have issues with it on a few levels. As well as the fact that if there's even the tiniest shred of doubt you could be killing an innocent person, even if the person is guilty of murder surely killing them for it is still murder? To me it seems perverse to convict someone of this terrible crime, say "this is the worst thing you could do, you will be punished", and then do the very same thing to them that they have been convicted for. Also I think life in jail without parole is just as adequate a punishment. Finally, short of a confession, I think the result of a trial just isn't enough grounds to take somebody else's life. It's too open to prejudice, preconceptions and many other problems. At least if you don't kill somebody mistakes can be rectified, even 20 years too late.

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

@I.T.: that does happen, sure, but very rarely. And in THIS PARTICULAR CASE, there is 0% question that the fucker killed 4 people.

You kill 4 people, you don't live. I fail to see the fucking confusion on this issue.

 

[lurch70]

My girlfriend has that in her room.

that would be grounds for a breakup in my book

 

[Nate The Great]

Your last point is even more worrying, considering in Texas they've cut down on the appeals processes just to avoid that statistic being true

That's not exactly what I meant. Texas is just much more effiecient at going through the appeals process. California takes the longest and most ridiculous route to every possible conclusion. If there is a way to waste time and money, California will find it. If there is a way to make somethine run more economically and efficiently, Texas will find it.

It's the difference between the right wing mentallity and the left wing.

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

It's not even that IMO, Nate.

I'm far from being "right wing," I'm just not an uber-sensitive ultra pussy like the left wing

It's a very, very simple issue with me: you kill someone, you die. That's it.

 

[Demonspell]

I'm against the death penalty, especially the way Ahnuld is using it for leverage, but I still think it can be justified in some cases, and this is one...in addition to the murders, he's directly ordered and encouraged countless acts of gang warfare...won't shed any tears if they let the bastard fry.

 

[Nate The Great]

Another point: Does society benefit from having this Dookie guy around? Not as far as I'm concerned. Who gives a fuck if he wrote some books that preach against violence? If you're going to have him in prison, he shouldn't be able to communicate with the rest of society. He's already proven that he can't be trusted.

Society has no use for murderers, rapists, and child molesters. Either kill them or lock them up forever after their first offense. It's not that hard to follow the rules.

 

[Russell]

That's not exactly what I meant. Texas is just much more effiecient at going through the appeals process. California takes the longest and most ridiculous route to every possible conclusion. If there is a way to waste time and money, California will find it. If there is a way to make somethine run more economically and efficiently, Texas will find it.

It's the difference between the right wing mentallity and the left wing.

My comment sprang from the fact that a few years ago I read over here that it was the case in Texas as well, that executions cost more than life imprisonment. The Texan governor's response was along the lines of "well then we should cut down on the appeals process". So if the situation has changed since I read it, I was assuming that was exactly what had happened.