So you want a tight mix?

@jval Did you mic the drums or are they triggered? The snare has always sounded miced to me but the kick sounds like maybe steven slate?

btw, love structures! I've been following these guys even before they released the EP. Counterparts is another amazing band you produced.
 
SimonTaddio_Qc said:
Because THEY could play their shit tight.
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yeah man! that's what you get when recording on expensive analog tape...

practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice practice...X1000

record, edit, mix, master, done!
 
Eventually some people will stop comparing old music to new music. The differences in both our society, and technology are so much different, that there is no reason to compare them. If the Beatles had Pro Tools back then, would they have utilized editing? Who knows. But given what we all know to be human nature, I am willing to bet they would have tried it out.

I challenge every single person that has posted on here saying that the musicians just need to be perfect, to find a perfect musician that can play as tight as demanded by todays standards.
Anyways, since I am re-stating everything that has already been said, I wish to leave you with this:
Who are ANY of you to say what is musical, and what isn't? It is so funny how those of you who are saying metal, or edited music in general is not musical, have absolutely nothing to show for yourself, while the O.P. and Joey both have tons to show for themselves.

Now I am posting this insanely late from the OP. Go look up the O.P. and listen to his current productions. Go ahead and say they are not musical, or that it is killing the music industry. And then keep on living in your own little dream world where no one will ever give a FUCK about what you say.
 
ryhad15 said:
Eventually some people will stop comparing old music to new music. The differences in both our society, and technology are so much different, that there is no reason to compare them. If the Beatles had Pro Tools back then, would they have utilized editing? Who knows. But given what we all know to be human nature, I am willing to bet they would have tried it out.

I challenge every single person that has posted on here saying that the musicians just need to be perfect, to find a perfect musician that can play as tight as demanded by todays standards.
Anyways, since I am re-stating everything that has already been said, I wish to leave you with this:
Who are ANY of you to say what is musical, and what isn't? It is so funny how those of you who are saying metal, or edited music in general is not musical, have absolutely nothing to show for yourself, while the O.P. and Joey both have tons to show for themselves.

Now I am posting this insanely late from the OP. Go look up the O.P. and listen to his current productions. Go ahead and say they are not musical, or that it is killing the music industry. And then keep on living in your own little dream world where no one will ever give a FUCK about what you say.
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I agree. That is all.
 
Jumping on the necrowagon.

Fuck 12,000 edits.... unless I'm getting paid by the hour.

There was a Randy Blythe rant (of course there was) about this whole, "I can't play in a band, but I can on a computer" mentality that seems to be at the forefront of a lot of AE frustration at this day and age. The aesthetics remain, It's either machined or so organic it's dated. Problem is, we're getting nowhere in this industry just bickering amongst ourselves about Joey's mix versus Andy's or whoever the fuck, at some point it all becomes dated. I know engineers in the 90's looked back on the 80's and thought, "why the fuck did that sound so cool?" just like last year's uber-tight metalcore record made soundgarden resonate almost psychedelic.

Some say a band's worth lies in their performance, others want the record sales to reflect it. The Mona Lisa is worth millions, and so is Apple Inc. There are still art museums and an app store. Life goes on.
 
Well RedDog, while I do agree with you on the live playing part (although in a live situation you can never really hear the guitar) the topic says: "So you want a tight mix?" and I haven't heard one tight 80s metal record. It's a taste issue if you like the tight sound or not but this is a great tutorial on how to get a super tight sound.

Well I think you don't need 12,000 fade files if you use a proper guitar. I do record every riff separately myself although I do own a few guitars that stay in superb pitch all over the neck. I'm kind of sick of reading more and more on "what is the cheapest way to get a good metal sound". You get what you pay for. I say you should at least buy a guitar that stays in tune... so you bought a cheap cool looking guitar with a cheap floyd on it. Don't ever use it for recording! F.ex. I only use my PRS guitars or my EBMM JP6 for serious recordings. Yes, all of those guitars cost over 2k€ new.... but that will give me a mix that also sounds like money. :)

I think Brad Delson (Linkin Park) is a good example of recording tight. He has been criticized on not playing metal riffs with emotion but in fact his technique is that HE DOESN'T HIT THE STRINGS TOO HARD so his chords stay in perfect tune. And if you look at his studio videos he's tuning his guitar all the time and complaining how much he hates tuning. Same thing with John Petrucci and his studio videos.
 
Clark, I realize my post was a ways off topic. On topic, the edits alone are a daunting task and the ear it takes to capture suchperformances would surely die from exhaustion. Personally, I wouldn't go near as far into editing, because if its my name on the line I would not want to associate myself with artists who simply can't play. that said, sometimes riff by riff works in some case., especially if you have numerous ideas and would like to audition them one after another to best fit the flow of the song. Sort of like making loops and dropping them in.
 
RedDog said:
Clark, I realize my post was a ways off topic. On topic, the edits alone are a daunting task and the ear it takes to capture suchperformances would surely die from exhaustion. Personally, I wouldn't go near as far into editing, because if its my name on the line I would not want to associate myself with artists who simply can't play. that said, sometimes riff by riff works in some case., especially if you have numerous ideas and would like to audition them one after another to best fit the flow of the song. Sort of like making loops and dropping them in.
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Why is everyone under the assumption a bad live performance will backlash on the engineer? Out of 20 shows a band plays there are maybe 2 guys who could even name the producer/engineer who did the record (if you do not count other bandguys), they will just be a shitty live band.
 
RedDog, I totally get what you are saying. This is what is killing "rock'n'roll". I guess we just have to live with the fact that nowadays people aren't that much into live shows but more into listening to their music at home, in the car and at work when the boss is not around. :) And you can create a big illusion of being a great musician with quantizing drums, autotuning vocals and recording guitars in parts.

Just about all records that are being released nowadays go through 1-3 different producers. Their job is to make a record as perfect as possible. Producers make products. Music is a product.

EDIT: This is a bit off-topic but... about autotune. I think people are a bit too harsh on the usage of autotune. I'm not talking about the T-Pain effect. Just about the fact that high end studio time is very costly. If a vocalist has an off-day it could take him/her the whole day to track one part perfectly OR the producer can decide to let a few off-key things go by and correct them later and get the album finished in time. And also most engineers will add autotune and just not tell that they are using it so the artist doesn't feel bad about it. Remember: wrong note = wrong frequency = un-tight mix.
 
I don't think I could not-tell a client I autotuned them. I'm a bit of an asshole and nice guy.

"You missed notes here and here and here, I used some pitch correction to set it straight."

I see no reason to spare someone's ego if they aren't hitting the right notes when I have to chop up the guitar parts because the guitarists can't play, and quantize drums when the drummer can't play to grid. For me, autotune=splicing=slip editing. They all help turn something into an inhumanly tight machine.

Lon said:
Why is everyone under the assumption a bad live performance will backlash on the engineer? Out of 20 shows a band plays there are maybe 2 guys who could even name the producer/engineer who did the record (if you do not count other bandguys), they will just be a shitty live band.
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You heard about the engineer who had his name stricken from the credits on Metallica album last year, right? Obviously that guy was afraid of losing business.
 
RedDog said:
I don't think I could not-tell a client I autotuned them. I'm a bit of an asshole and nice guy.

"You missed notes here and here and here, I used some pitch correction to set it straight."

I see no reason to spare someone's ego if they aren't hitting the right notes when I have to chop up the guitar parts because the guitarists can't play, and quantize drums when the drummer can't play to grid. For me, autotune=splicing=slip editing. They all help turn something into an inhumanly tight machine.



You heard about the engineer who had his name stricken from the credits on Metallica album last year, right? Obviously that guy was afraid of losing business.
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I did not, i'd be glad if you could give me a short summary of the incident, albeit if someone wanted to clear his name of death magnetic then noone is to blame, because that record just sounds bad.
 
Not really contributing anything to the thread here,
but this has been an excellent read for a young producer like me who wants that professional sound.

I feel like this should be stickied.
 
Clark Kent said:
RedDog, I totally get what you are saying. This is what is killing "rock'n'roll". I guess we just have to live with the fact that nowadays people aren't that much into live shows but more into listening to their music at home, in the car and at work when the boss is not around. :) And you can create a big illusion of being a great musician with quantizing drums, autotuning vocals and recording guitars in parts.
Click to expand...

do you really think that's the case in the primary genres most of us here reside in? For me and most of the heavy music fans I know, they would completely disregard a band that a.) couldn't pull of their shit live and/or b.) was painfully obvious they are a studio magic kind of band.

thankfully the music I mostly listen to, as well as most of the people I know, is NOT AT ALL the kind of music this thread alludes to, thank goodness. I like the fact that pretty much every band I dig on CD sounds pretty much just as good live. But I don't listen to much trendy stuff these days. I can get along with a band doing tight editing/phrase note tracking to make things, er, tight. But it really is a completely different thing to track like this in an effort to HIDE the fact that the musicians can't pull it off.
 
it's the idea...thats all it is. the same as a novelist writes prose, the musician takes chord progression instead of wordplay. What does it make you FEEL? mechanized machinelike lockstep rythmns give you a different picture than the loose between the notes style swing. the world needs both. The world needs that what made us what we are today, the underground...
 
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