Something Wild Song Survivor Round 1

[Stun]

Yeah, but they claim to be metal, don't they? And 99% of Linkin Park fans I've talked to claim they are metal, and when I ask a lot of ppl if they like metal, they say "what, like Linkin Park?". I respect your opinion anyway. However... it's incredibly easy to make most music. The music that Linkin Park makes would take little to no thought and no foresight. I could shit out music like that all day and all night long. Maybe that's just me but I doubt it.

Still, don't flame me or anything, heh. They aren't my thing but I'm not bashing them. Just saying what I've observed.

 

[Lari]

I could shit out music like that all day and all night long.

Then why don't you do it? Wouldn't that be easy money, huh?

 

[Stun]

How can you ask that? I could never play music like that. I'd be ashamed. I don't wanna bash them anymore than I have, even tho it wasn't my intention...

I'd much rather make a name for myself making unique and interesting music. Fuck, I did it again... I keep inadvertently bashing them, but I don't know how else to explain myself.

EDIT: Plus, money has never interested me... as long as I can live, and play music.

 

[heatherxlove]

i don't like to say that linkin park is metal. i'm not sure if they say they're metal or not. to me, they have more hip-hop influence than anything from mike shinoda being a primary songwriter. if you put them in the hip-hop genre, they'd be towards the top. but in the metal genre, as far as the technical stuff goes, they'd be towards the bottom. they have mixed the genres to try and create a new sound. i enjoy the sound.

i like their image and style. they're trying to reach different people. they are carried into many different cultures. shinoda and hahn bring an asian influence into the group while bennington brings his surburban white boy depeche mode influence. i appreciate them and have listened to them for years.

but whatever.. this isn't a linkin park lecture. </rant>

 

[MagSec4]

The problem is how each of you define 'catchiness'
If you, Stun, really like a particular song of CoB that got voted out early (and would be labeled 'not catchy' by you) It is because there is something about that song to which you respond positively.. You 'like' the song because somehow it stimulated your brain more so than any of the other songs. This 'somehow' doesn't have to be about repeated simple melodies or chorouses.. it could be the fact that the base changes sound like a dying giraffe and you happen to like that.. this is what differs from each person's taste to the next.
And this is the same type of 'catchiness' that a pop fan experiences towards a particular ..Nsync song, for example.

So using the term 'catchiness' in this fashion means that you can't group certain CoB songs in these two categories and divide up the fans like that.. because catchiness is not an absolute property of the song, but a relative response to an individual's taste.

If you define 'catchiness' (the way you did) as a specific property of the music, a property that you dislike; then I can't dispute your posts since you're simply stating your opinion, and as we know, everyone has his or her own.

..ok I'm done


EDIT: By the way Stun, If I recall correctly, some of your favorite songs include Black Widow and Mask of Sanity, which happen to be 2 of my very top songs.
And they do have a 'catchiness' to their melodies and specific parts

 

[SilentNightThrobbongNight]

my my looks like weve got sigmund freud on our hands.

 

[Stun]

Well, I define catchiness as a fixed thing... sort of. heh. I'll try to explain: the first melody of Hate Me!, after the intro... I'd call that catchy. But I don't like the melody. But I still consider it catchy. Black Widow's chorus is very catchy... but I like it. Opinion still has much to do with it, but most ppl consider similar things to be 'catchy'.

My point is just that many ppl, while making fun of many other styles of music (often the only thing they can attack is their "type" of catchiness), applaud their own fav bands' catchiness. It's foolish. I know we're close to getting mixed up in labels here, but I'd still say catchiness is a fairly concrete thing (despite appearing in different forms throughout all types of music). Like, I wouldn't deny that hip hop and rap is very catchy, but I don't enjoy it.

I think by default, the human brain's unconsciousness is responsive to certain arrangements... we call it catchiness. But it's up to our consciousness to sort which melodies we "like" and "dislike". It's absolutely arbitrary but still... I bet all of you have heard someone call CoB "gay" or something similar before, even tho it's undeniable talented and catchy. And I've heard undeniably talented (not in the same way as CoB, tho) rap and hip hop that I said sucked...

EDIT: Ah, oops. This has been covered but just in case, I'll make it clear since you directly said this: you say that I define the CoB songs that I liked as not catchy. Not true. This is similar to what that Finnish guy said, in a way. I love catchiness, but it is only one aspect of many. Flow, structure, solos, emotion, innovation, improvisation... many other things combine to make a solid song in my mind. It's been my observation that a clear majority of ppl only care about emotion and catchiness.

What do you think, MagSec? I hope I've explained myself. I'd like to see what that Finnish guy has to say too. I always wonder if ppl will apologize when they tell someone off for no reason.

 

[Lari]

How can you ask that? I could never play music like that. I'd be ashamed. I don't wanna bash them anymore than I have, even tho it wasn't my intention...

I'd much rather make a name for myself making unique and interesting music. Fuck, I did it again... I keep inadvertently bashing them, but I don't know how else to explain myself.

EDIT: Plus, money has never interested me... as long as I can live, and play music.

This wasn't actually about playing but composing, right? To me it sounds in a way hilarious to think that someone with the ability to 'shit out music like that all day and all night long', doesn't do it just because of the horrible shame that the true and KVLT black metal warrior ( ) would face. Nothing stops you from still composing and playing songs you really like, too.

Maybe I'm a materialist or something, but at least I, as a student, am very desperate to get money at times Composing music for a succesful band doesn't sound that bad to me.

And on the topic of catchiness..

Flow, structure, solos, emotion, innovation, improvisation... many other things combine to make a solid song in my mind.

Isn't it possible for a catchy song to have these 'abilities' too? (SNBN, anyone?)

 

[Stun]

Uh....... composing and playing are almost always inextricably linked. At least in metal, that's for sure... so, am I supposed to start looking for record labels I can sell bland commerical music to, since I'd never play it? Uh, no offense man, but do you realize how friggin stupid this sounds? Maybe it happens, but I don't care. I wouldn't do it. And I'm the last person who'd call himself a "true" metal fan or whatever. I hate to post such a negative message, but what you said was quite insulting to me, on more than one level... by far the most offensive thing was the suggestion that I wouldn't do it cause of how ppl would perceive me... it's how I would perceive myself. If that's what you meant anyways, okay then; if you don't think that's a bad thing, then you have my pity, for what it's worth.

About your other comment: I've already explained what I meant by catchiness, and what you just said in response has already been said by myself (and others). My original msg was that most CoB fans seem to only care about catchiness... not that catchiness sucks, or that catchy songs can't have flow or unique structure and so on (which is what many ppl seem to be accusing me of). And yes, I've considered the possibility that it isn't the catchiness that is the reason ppl voted for the songs that they did. However, that just isn't the case for the majority of ppl... I've observed this for a long time. It sucks that it's human nature to look at the surface of things, and no deeper. But it's good that it's also in our nature to look deep beneath the surface to see what things are made of.

Would you kill someone for a million dollars, if noone could ever find out? Or maybe a billion? Unlimited money? Would you kill your own family? The closest question to the matter at hand, tho, is this: would you kill yourself, if it meant untold riches in the next world? It's rhetorical, really... I've already given my answer, and you've already given yours.

 

[Lari]

It seems that two totally different opinions collided and going on and on wouldn't do any good, no matter how much i'd like to comment certain parts on your previous post, he-he.. Sorry if you felt I insulted you, it really wasn't my intention (blame my awful English, Finnish humour and the internet for not providing the opportunity to include tones of voice in a text message ).

 

[Stun]

Heh, not the response I expected. I figured you didn't mean to insult me, but I had to react anyway... music is the center of my being, and suggesting making music for money and not enjoyment is - I don't even know the word... heh, blasphemous, or something. Sorry, anyhow, for going pretty much all-out on you. The fact that you weren't offended by my post speaks more than words ever could.

I'm just wondering... what opinions are colliding here??? I don't see that opinions have a lot to do with this, really. I see it more as a matter of labels and words getting mixed up (catchiness is a pretty broad term, as MagSec said). I'm curious to know what you mean by this.

 

[Midnightblueshade]

But it's up to our consciousness to sort which melodies we "like" and "dislike".

What we like, what we en-joy is a feeling, and thus comes from the unconsciousness, right? That's the way I see it, you see it differently? For me, taste & likes & dislikes are a "feel" thing more than a head thing. Of course, one can think about things and and come to the conclusion something is good and valuable, but a like or dislike is a gut thing and not the result of a conscious conclusion. - Or do you consciously choose which songs you like? (No rethorical question)

On one hand I agree with MagSec4, if a song catches on someone depends one the listener, but on the other hand you're right, some songs are more likely to catch quite a lot of people. It's in between.

 

[Stun]

You didn't quote the rest of what was relevant. I said that certain sounds and arrangements seem to please the brain by default (unconscious)... but it's up to us to decide which is "good" and "bad" (conscious)... like I said, I hear catchiness in rap and pop but I don't like it (although that has a lot to do with lack of uniqueness, structure, etc.). But you're also right, because a lot of ppl rely on the unconscious to decide which is "good" or "cool". I rely mostly on my own observations rather than the ones that go on beneath the conscious level. But my unconscious observations have been changed permanently from my conscious ones anyway.

It's all arbitrary... at one point in life you decide that a certain song or style is amazing and another one is not. Only later on do we start making rationalizations for our choices. That's why I look for all these things that I've deemed important, for whatever reason. Most ppl just like whatever sounds good on first listen, what really catches you.

The big problem is that words get in the way of meanings in discussions like this. Do you understand what I mean?

P.S. I think the worst song off of SW is Lake Bodom.

 

[Lari]

I'm just wondering... what opinions are colliding here??? I don't see that opinions have a lot to do with this, really.

I was actually referring to this :

Music is the center of my being, and suggesting making music for money and not enjoyment is - I don't even know the word... heh, blasphemous, or something.

I personally don't see a reason why one couldn't do music for money, too. For example, from what I've understood, the keyboard player of Finntroll and Moonsorrow has stated that he doesn't even want to make any money with these bands but he also works as a freelance musician, accepting pretty much every job he is offered.

Sorry, anyhow, for going pretty much all-out on you. The fact that you weren't offended by my post speaks more than words ever could.

I'm never offended by anything. Being offended about something is just a waste of time

 

[Morning Star]

EDIT: Plus, money has never interested me... as long as I can live, and play music.

very good, that's the right way to think lol

yeah people can do it for the money.. but a lot of people start, mm, losing the music interest after earning a lot of money? metallica, for example, SUCKED on st anger.. it's good stun thinks that. one pure dedicated musician.

sorry.. I shouldn't speak, I don't know any of you very well, but hey, it was an interesting thread.

 

[Midnightblueshade]

You didn't quote the rest of what was relevant. I said that certain sounds and arrangements seem to please the brain by default (unconscious)... but it's up to us to decide which is "good" and "bad" (conscious)...

So in your opinion every persons' brains are pleased by the same default sounds? Then it would make sense to regard catchiness as a property of the song. But I don't think it is like that... if it were, everybody would enjoy the same music, except for the people that consciously decide to like other music. Then I should be listening to mainstream pop, because liking music is all unconscious reaction and not conscious decision for me; but I'm not.

The big problem is that words get in the way of meanings in discussions like this. Do you understand what I mean?

I hope so... there is the unconscious "likes" and "dislikes" (which may or may not be the same for all people) and the conscious decision of "good" or "bad".
I guess a misunderstanding arose because we have different approaches to music: You choose what you like by that conscious decision and I like what feels good to my guts. (And since I have a rather analytical approach to most aspects of life, I like *g* to have that emotional approach to music as a balance.)

 

[Stun]

I just mean that most ppl seem to like the same or similar things by default... like how children like stupid songs and rhymes. But then ppl branch out. Consciousness plays more of a role than unconscious as time goes on, usaully. Your brain probably originally liked pop songs, but at one point you said "pop sucks".

When I first heard Bodom, I didn't like the vocals or keys, but really liked the guitars. I kept listening, and now I like growls and keys... not just consciously, but unconsciously. My point is that the default can always change, too...