Songwriting

[Mystique1721]

so i thought it'd be a good idea to have a thread that helps out people who are stuck or having a hard time writing out a song.

currently, i'm trying to figure out how to write for rhythm guitar. usually i come up with the riffs for the lead guitar first but then i get stuck on what to make the rhythm play...any advice on this?

 

[<-Warheart->]

Do what Bodom do and just base it on a chord progression instead of having an actual "riff" like Metallica or something. Look at all the leads in SNBN and then look at the rhythms underneath...it's just all powerchords and picking on that E note during the interlude. I think this gives more emphasis on the melody itself instead of having 2 things going on at once.

 

[Mystique1721]

yeah i actually just stole a little bit of bodom's rhythm idea from one of their songs (but the notes are different). and i do want to keep the rhythm simple so the focus lies on the melody. and when you say chord progression is that like playing Emin, C, Dmin, and then back to Emin and repeating everything again?

 

[<-Warheart->]

Yeah. A chord progression is the order that you play the chords in. It could be something like Amin, Baug, Dbmaj, F#dim. It'd probably sound fucking terrible but it's a chord progression none-the-less.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I tend to play a single note or chord for a long time. just Am, Am, Am........................................ and jam on it. then I've got some cool rhythm idea going (since you can do fock else) and I start seeing where I can go with it. I try different chords. When I've got a bunch of nice chords that vibe with it, I play with their order and duration, and stylistic qualities. This includes how it's played, how it's strummed, is it arpeggiated, where on the neck, etc etc. At this point I've got a backing down and I go for lead. Again I just mess around in that key until something hits me as "wow"

 

[Taliwakker]

I just wait for inspiration and hope i'm within 10 metres of a guitar when it hits.

 

[naboo]

Here's a very good tip (I think):

Don't try to have too many themes going on in your song. You may end up just putting random riffs in that, while good on their own, don't relate or add much to the song itself. You can use a lot of dynamics and variations on a theme to write a song.

This tip basically wrote my last song:
http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=930310&t=2407
Go there to hear it for a good example of what I'm talking about (I barely realized I did this until one reviewer pointed it out).

It's a 12:32 song that has one solid theme that dominates while there are 1 or 2 others that are there to spice it up. It's based on a minor I VII IV(maj) progression, but I expand making an almost 12 chord progression with it. Off of that progression there are many parts that I made that go over it: a tremolo picked melody with a harmony, an acoustic picked melody, a synth melody, a picked electric guitar melody, as well as a vocal melody with a harmony.

Summoning is band that is very good using a strong main theme with many variations. They write some amazing music. Check out their latest "Oath Bound." They influenced this song greatly.

EDIT: Hah, sorry that doesn't answer your rhythm question.

 

[Mystique1721]

I tend to play a single note or chord for a long time. just Am, Am, Am........................................ and jam on it. then I've got some cool rhythm idea going (since you can do fock else) and I start seeing where I can go with it. I try different chords. When I've got a bunch of nice chords that vibe with it, I play with their order and duration, and stylistic qualities. This includes how it's played, how it's strummed, is it arpeggiated, where on the neck, etc etc. At this point I've got a backing down and I go for lead. Again I just mess around in that key until something hits me as "wow"

that's something i gotta try. writing out the rhythm first and then trying to come up with the lead. (yeah, i know, i'm very new to songwriting )

Here's a very good tip (I think):

Don't try to have too many themes going on in your song. You may end up just putting random riffs in that, while good on their own, don't relate or add much to the song itself. You can use a lot of dynamics and variations on a theme to write a song.

This tip basically wrote my last song:
http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?PID=930310&t=2407
Go there to hear it for a good example of what I'm talking about (I barely realized I did this until one reviewer pointed it out).

It's a 12:32 song that has one solid theme that dominates while there are 1 or 2 others that are there to spice it up. It's based on a minor I VII IV(maj) progression, but I expand making an almost 12 chord progression with it. Off of that progression there are many parts that I made that go over it: a tremolo picked melody with a harmony, an acoustic picked melody, a synth melody, a picked electric guitar melody, as well as a vocal melody with a harmony.

Summoning is band that is very good using a strong main theme with many variations. They write some amazing music. Check out their latest "Oath Bound." They influenced this song greatly.

EDIT: Hah, sorry that doesn't answer your rhythm question.

lol, that's ok. i still think it's some good advice. one thing i tend to do is come up with a lot of random riffs and try to stick them all together and then i have to try to find transitions (that turn out pretty crappy) to hold them together.

nice song by the way, i'm listening to it right now. and it does sound simple in that you are using one theme throughout the whole song basically. but let me get this straight...you are using the same progression throughout the whole song? and your riffs are following that progression while playing over it?

 

[naboo]

Well, not totally. The riff with the harsh vocals is a simple Am G (I VII) progression (Around 4:00 and other parts). The first heavy riff has a lead melody over an Am G D (I VII IVmaj) progression (Around 1:30). Then there's the big one which has about 12 chords in it (Examples of it used in different ways: 2:59, 5:07, 5:58, 7:40, 9:29). That's the one you'll hear with the clean vocals over it. See how that fades out and goes into an acoustic part? It fits so well because it's the same exact progression. Then I use the same riff that the harsh vocals were over, but acoustic (6:49). That transitions into a key change where the long chord progression with a slight variation (key change can be a varition too), but it's not heavy at all... almost folky (7:40).

It's a little hard to explain in writing. I really wish I could show you with guitar in hand hah.

And that's what I used to do too; just string random riffs with no real direction or similarites together and make a song. I mean, plenty of good songs are made that way (mine were pretty bad though, heh), but the past year or so I've been trying to write songs using this method.

 

[Mystique1721]

wow, i'm listening to this again..i really love this song. except it keeps stopping around 5:44 for some reason..it doesn't load after that.

and yeah, i think i would understand everything you are saying much better if you could show me on guitar pro or something. but i get the main message, which is to stay with one theme/key/progression.

by the way, i love those harsh vocals that come in. very black metal. i don't know about the chanting kinda stuff later on...it needs to be a little more decipherable imo. but hey, i read your little profile thing and it says your looking to collaborate. where exactly do you live?

 

[naboo]

Thanks. I'd love to collaborate! But... there's one big problem. I live in Massachusetts. What kind of music/bands are you into?

And that's weird... it shouldn't stop at 5:44. I made it available for download though, if you'd like to hear the rest.

 

[Mystique1721]

well whatever band you start will be lucky to have you. good luck with that

my favorite band is Children of Bodom. i also like Illnath, old In flames, the fall of troy, black flag, satyricon, dying fetus, necrophagist..umm some bathory, old dimmu borgir... but besides them i like a lot of genres like classical and jazz and punk rock.


and yeah, i'll most definitely download this song. did you tab it out on guitar pro or Power tabs by any chance?

 

[naboo]

Thanks, but no, I haven't. In fact, I don't have either program. I might be able to download it and do this for you sometime in the next week or two depending on how busy I am. If I do, I'll PM you.

 

[Mystique1721]

thanks! that'd be awesome. but don't go out of your way to do it if you're too busy. i'll make sure to keep checking back on your acidplanet page to see if you put up any more songs.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I write a lot of my VST stuff on power tab because it's easier for me to do it there and then translate it to Cubase rather than program it in Cubase itself. It also allows me to have a 'master' midi file that I can quickly and easily edit for all instruments I don't physically play on a track.