SoundMan VS StudioMan

[Plendakor]

I've heard a few times, some people say things like "I can record an album because one of the band members has a soundman formation"

Like, knowing the little I do about mixing and that deep hole of science after years and years of bits and bites, books and pain, I have a hard time understanding that a dude formed to work in live situation is able to mix an album.
Not being harsh, I'm myself very noob at live, I guess.. I'm sure they would mic the drum well but mix it is not the same story in my opinion.

Seems like a lot of people think soundmen are studio guys.
Are they ?

Chat!

 

[if6was9]

There are certainly similarities and skills shared between the two disiplines but so much different at the same time.

I definately don't think that because someone is good, knowledgeable live guy that they can do a good job mixing an album but they would certainly have a much easier job learning than a reuglar musician or guy with no experience. I also think that alot of studio guys don't have the skills to be a good live guy either.

Learning how to mix a live show- dealing with spill from backline, tuning of the room/system and especially in dealing with how a crowd and the noise they make affects the sound are things a studio guy will not know how to do. Editing, layering and carving and making space are things a studio guy will have alot more skill at than a live guy too.

I think it would definately benefit alot of people to do both and the work compliments each other. I've been doing both for a few years now and think it helps alot and has made me a much better engineer overall.

 

[Sloan]

I'm doing both as much as I can nowadays as well and I agree that while similar they are also very different. You don't really get to make mistakes and take too many risks live, you have to go with solid, tried and true decisions. I feel it's a little less 'precise' than studio work since the situation or environment is less controlled, you just have to kind of 'ballpark' a lot of things. In the studio, you can experiment more and take your time crafting the sound that you want - which i really like. It still definitely pays to be on quick on your toes in the studio though. Right now, I prefer studio work, but the live stuff is fun too.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

I've heard enough botched FOH mixes to know that live guys would in most cases suck horribly at mixing a record.

But then again, the ones that do it well also seem to record bands as well so in that case the point would be moot.

But no a live only guy that had never mixed an album before might be slightly better than a total noob but he would indeed still suck shit at it.

 

[hurdy]

Live work involves alot more cutting of frequencies etc to get rid of mic feedback. Its more problem solving than in the studio
This leads to shitty sounding live mixes etc. The studio work can usually be easier to get solid tones etc
I reckon a live sound engineer would probably find it easier to go from Live to in the Studio
Than a studio dude would find it hard going from studio to a Live situation as they don't deal with mic feedback, venue echo etc as much

 

[Trevoire520]

I do both live and studio sound and to be honest I think alot of studio guys would shit their pants if they had to do a live gig without previous experience.

Live you can't rely on sample replacement, re-amping, editing performances, massive amounts of compression, hours of tweaking etc to get a decent mix. For most bands you have a quick sound check or even just a line check (thats normally useless anyway for a variety of reasons)

Here's an idea of the first 30 seconds of any set you might be unlucky enough to do at a local gig: The singer is cupping the mic, singing barely above a whisper and jumping in front of the house PA, no-one can really hear him, and there's not all that much you can do about it as the mic is clearly right on the edge of squealing. The guitar amps are way louder than they were at soundcheck, the bass player has messed with the eq on his amp and given it a massive bump at 40hz, so now the whole stage is vibrating along with it. The drummer is destroying his 24" Paiste Rude Ride and barely touching his kick/snare. Everyone wants everything louder in the monitors. You're also having to do lights for the gig btw.

You've got to deal with feedback in the monitors and in front of house, backline levels in small venues can end up influencing 50% or more of your mix, room acoustics are a huge consideration, you're having to simultaneously mix front of house for the punters AND trying to make sure everyone on stage can hear what they need through the monitors, most of the time guitar players live tones SUCK, most of the time the singers projection and mic technique sucks, most of the time the drumkit sucks or is badly tuned. Everyone's hassling you for things they should have brought themselves like guitar leads and hi-hat clutches. Some of the time the PA is broken or totally unsuitable for the room. Also the quick soundcheck you had earlier was a waste of time because that was an empty room, now there's punters in nothing sounds the same.

In the studio you can basically re-engineer the entire recording/performance to make it sound decent. Live you just take the band and make them sound louder, eq/gate/compress things a bit and hope to fuck they actually have their shit together, because if they don't everyone's going to blame you for some reason. Even if all the other bands you mixed that night sounded great.

FWIW I feel live engineering has really helped me get to grips with eq much more than studio stuff. You don't have time to sit and mess around with eq all day, you basically get a level and cut out the stuff thats bothering you, or boost the stuff you need to get something heard in the melee that is a live mix.

 

[if6was9]

Well said.
I also think it'd be much easier for a live guy to do a day in the studio than a studio guy to do a good job at a gig.

Live guys are expected to do EVERYTHING at a gig, especially smaller ones of 300 or less people. And most bands haven't a clue what they are doing. The amount of times I've spent going back and forth with band members getting their onstage volume perfect for them to zero the volumes for no reason when they're done with the soundcheck rendering the whole process pointless. If you think 99% bands are unprepared for recording, imagine what they're like playing all together before they get into "tight" recording mode.

The pressures of a live gig are the hardest part for an engineer. It certainly is not something everyone can do. I've been at gigs where the engineer has just folded and everything runs to shit.

 

[Sloan]

^^yes!

 

[RedDog]

I have to say, the transition from studio work to live was relatively easy. Bands are just kind of shit, no matter what you do. Mic em up, set em and forget em half the time, the rest is running cables and knowing how much your system can push before hitting the legal limit or just being ridiculously loud. Never done a huge festival or massive tour, but local clubs with maybe 4-6 different backlines, so nothing to stress out about. I found it was more decision making and quick action more than knowing how much everything's going to suck. I agree totally with the pressure, not everyone can handle it at all.

 

[arv_foh]

I do both live and studio sound and to be honest I think alot of studio guys would shit their pants if they had to do a live gig without previous experience.

Live you can't rely on sample replacement, re-amping, editing performances, massive amounts of compression, hours of tweaking etc to get a decent mix. For most bands you have a quick sound check or even just a line check (thats normally useless anyway for a variety of reasons)

Here's an idea of the first 30 seconds of any set you might be unlucky enough to do at a local gig: The singer is cupping the mic, singing barely above a whisper and jumping in front of the house PA, no-one can really hear him, and there's not all that much you can do about it as the mic is clearly right on the edge of squealing. The guitar amps are way louder than they were at soundcheck, the bass player has messed with the eq on his amp and given it a massive bump at 40hz, so now the whole stage is vibrating along with it. The drummer is destroying his 24" Paiste Rude Ride and barely touching his kick/snare. Everyone wants everything louder in the monitors. You're also having to do lights for the gig btw.

You've got to deal with feedback in the monitors and in front of house, backline levels in small venues can end up influencing 50% or more of your mix, room acoustics are a huge consideration, you're having to simultaneously mix front of house for the punters AND trying to make sure everyone on stage can hear what they need through the monitors, most of the time guitar players live tones SUCK, most of the time the singers projection and mic technique sucks, most of the time the drumkit sucks or is badly tuned. Everyone's hassling you for things they should have brought themselves like guitar leads and hi-hat clutches. Some of the time the PA is broken or totally unsuitable for the room. Also the quick soundcheck you had earlier was a waste of time because that was an empty room, now there's punters in nothing sounds the same.

I deal with at least one or many of these situations at every gig I work. Especially guitar tuning, drum tuning, and terrible mic technique.

 

[decoy205]

The hardest part about live situations is having ZERO time to deal with issues that arise. If a band is supposed to go on and something craps out you better be able to find the problem and find it fast. Getting great live sounds is very rewarding but getting there is almost always a process. In the studio you have a bit more mad scientist time so its not as high pressure.

I know guys that do both and are good at it, and I know guys that do both and are better at one than the other. To be good at both is something special and requires a great ear, patience and lots of experience.

 

[everybody's x]

I do both live and studio sound and to be honest I think alot of studio guys would shit their pants if they had to do a live gig without previous experience.

That's right, we throw and go baby and you better have your shit together, because everything is YOUR FAULT

 

[ArnaudM]

"I do both live and studio sound and to be honest I think alot of studio guys would shit their pants if they had to do a live gig without previous experience."

In one phrase you sum up everything. I truly admire a good soundman, just because on the contrary of a studio geek, he does't have the time to build the sound he wants. Be quick or be dead.

 

[xFkx]

to give my point of view, a good live guy will be good in the studio, a bad live dude will suck in the studio...


anyway, many have said it already, doing live sound is a rollercoaster ride to hell, but damn do I ever love it :Smokedev: