SPOILERS!Damnation is leaked!

Originally posted by Jeremy
Not when they're lame... first he was too stupid to see this thread was a joke... and starts striking out blindly... and then he fails to see that MP3 are responsible for a big percentage of metal fans... even Opeth fans... and that includes me... without MP3 I would never have heard this amazing band.... and I bought the cds and will see them live in February.

Look buddy. I don't post in response to anyone in particular and very rarely get incensed by anthing, but this whole "download as soon as it leaks" thing really does get me worked up.

To address some points other than these: Downloading albums and then buying them, personally after the release date why not? I sample mp3's of bands, and if i like them i buy the cd, so I am not telling everyone who's ever downloaded an mp3 to fuck off. But then again, 15 year olds with the mental capacity of a pea will always be insulted when they feel they are justified in doing something which if looked at logically has very little justification behind other than greed and an increase in social standing and the respect they think they gain by being he first kid on the block to have heard it.

The only real debate is whether people are ruining it for you and whether or not they're still buying the album. For the former...thats your own fault IMO. Dont click on threads that are gonna fuk it up for you...its not that hard to avoid.

To be honest, I avoid those threads anyway, the point I was making is that someone can come along, start a thread only to be told by people who have already had the album since it leaked to go screw themselves as it's already been debated. I don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks about an album as I have my own opinions. Maybe other people are ruining it for me, but in a way they are ruining it for themselves as well. Not only by removing the album buying event (some people should try it sometime) but really by damaging the artists belief in what they are doing and in some cases resolve. As I pointed out, having your work leaked out before you want it to isn't exactly what you would call encouraging. That coupled with reviews of unpackaged material, and a couple of fanboys/detractors deciding to review it to look cool and you are coupled with the album facing an uphill struggle from the start before it's release.

For example, what if the new opeth album had been their 34.788% album (My Dying Bride reference here) where all their fans didn't know what it was about, and then consequently slammed it to fuck, despite it maybe being a good album if actually listened to. I am not saying this wouldn't happen anyway, but consider that if people get warned of the album before it's release, then what?

Regarding the debate it seems silly to me 7DT to impose your opinions about how someone else should listen to music. That is not debatable...music is personalized and should be listened to however you see fit.
My arguments is about downloading leaked albums, not what format you listen to music on and where. My argument is on the damage leaked albums do to an artist, and as a basic, album sales are a way of an artist and or band of supporting themselves.

The whole mp3 argument has been done to death, and I am not against mp3's as there are a hell of a lot of bands I've been exposed to that I wouldn't have looked at otherwise.

What my viewpoint on downloading albums and burnng them to CD's is is beside the question here and for another discussion, but suffice to say it's one of those things i don't really agree with, especially if people realise that a lot of their favorite bands just do it for the love of it as they are never going to get rich of it and most still need day jobs. You don't support your artists to continue recording and they disband, dissapear and hence no longer make that beautifull music you desire. Simple.


Mr. Niel said it all....
What people seem to forget is that it's the inderground that keeps these bands alive.... without mp3 a band like Opeth wouldn't be so known... I would never have heard of Opeth if my buddy wouldn't have ripped the cds for me... and after that I bought them and I got Deliverance even before it was released in my country... and guess what? I had the mp3 way before that... And I'll download Damnation as soon as it is available... so fuck you 7 Dying Trees...
I think I adressed this point already above. You bought the cd's after hearing them, fair enough, lots of people have done that, and I am not arguing about the whole musical exposure issue, in fact, I think more people should be given the chance to hear new stuff, so in my book mp3's have never been a bad thing, apart from the lack of sonic reproduction (anyone who thinks mp3's are just as good as cd should read up on mp3 compression techniques, how they are lossy and why in relation to the sensitivity of your ear). Every band should have one or two samples from their albums on their websites. It's good marketing and gives you a taster of what it's like. Nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with getting a tape of your freinds, as long as if you like it you buy it and show support for these people that make music for you.

Still, why do you feel the need to download before it's release date? Explain, please, I really want to know why you can't wait, once someone gives me a valid point then I'll consider their arguments. Up untill that point anyone arguing for downloading albums before their release date has very very very litle case.

And don't get me started on the fucknuts that leak it...


anyway,

I don't understand why so many posters are getting upset about "Deliverance" being shared over the internet before its official release date. This is the fault of the record companies handing out promo-copies to the media. In the old days, it obviously wasn't that easy to mass distribute promo-copies of an album before the release date, but nowadays with the internet, it's kind of pointless to complain about it, cause there will always be someone who is willing to share it online, and one person is all it takes. Today, getting to hear an album before its release date is in the hands of the record companies. Maybe they shouldn't pass out promos so early before the release date.

And besides, the album will continue to circulate over Person to Person shareware after its release, just like all the other Opeth albums, and pretty much anyone's album. This isn't going to stop until all those companies that made that shareware are lawfully made to cease the use of it, like Napster. The chances of that happening seem pretty slim right now, so supporting your favorite artist works like this:

If you like them and want them to make a living at what they do, you will support them with your hard earned money.

It's pretty simple.

I had copies of all the Opeth albums before I bought them all, and they were made by friends. I didn't even download them. How come no one ever gripes about that? How is downloading off the internet and having someone record you a tape or cd-r of an album different? They're not! It's the record companies fault for producing it's product on such an easily accesible, cheap medium that can be widely distributed and mass produced in a matter of days. If they really wanted you to buy cds, they would stop making them cost $18.99 and up.

At any rate, I like Opeth. And as with all the bands I want to support, I will buy their cds when they are released. Being able to "test drive" a cd, so to speak, is pretty fair for a cd that is going to cost you $20 at the mall.

I know they'll go on circulation after their release, not much you can do to stop it. But still promo is not equal to album.

I also agree about CD prices, but this is basic monetary theory of supply and demand. If CD's where cheaper I'd buy more, but right now I buy mailorder and across the net to make it cheaper for me, but i'll still buy which is what it boils down to.

And yes, passing out promos to everyone left right and centre isn't really the way to stop an album leaking, and yes, in a way it is in the hands of record companies.

Really, all I want to know is why the impatience? Whay can't everyone just wait? Get the real thing, or at least better quality versions?
 
I honestly couldn't give a fuck about any moral debate about downloading the album. I'll be downloading it as soon as possible and buying it as soon as possible. So I dont care. Ill also be going to their show and buying lots and lots of merchandise. SO I DONT FUCKING CARE!!
 
But you care to waste time to share your impatience with the board? :err:

7DTrees-
"...if looked at logically has very little justification other than greed and an increase in social standing and the respect they think they gain by being he first kid on the block to have heard it."
I've never heard a logical answer for it. It's always "I can do what I want, so fuck you." or someone defends something that’s not even being "challenged" like why MP3’s are good and shouldn't be frowned on (as it did happen again in this conversation) or something childishly similar. What's the logical answer other than "...greed and an increase in social standing and the respect they think they gain by being he first kid on the block to have heard it."

Yicj-
"...if there's anyone on this list that downloaded an opeth album and didnt buy it they should be shot."
Should, could, would. "...everyone here respects music and respects musicians especially Opeth...we're on their f'ing message board!!"AND?! You're assuming. That's how mistakes happen.

7DTrees-
"...why the impatience?"
Okay, just imagine for a moment, the difference it would make if you gave just 10 seconds more patience sometimes. Show some individual strength for cryin' out loud.
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Originally posted by Degenerate Machinery
getting back on the subject...

where the crap can i get the leak?
Mirc? kazaa sure dont have it...

Read the first and second pages of this thread and it should be apparent that this is an elaborate put-on...or is it? I swear with conviction that I have not heard anything from the album.
 
Originally posted by Slipknot_isn't_metal
like say for example.....In Flames - RtR ....i downloaded it ....listen to it occasionally and even liked it for a little while ....but goddammit i'm happy i didn't buy it ....
But why doesn't the band deserved to get payed for the time that you did like it?
 
I own about 260 albums...I'd guess that about 50-60% of those are burnt copies. I own every Opeth album (with the exception of Damnation, since it's not been released yet, and I'm sure as hell not gonna download it)...All but "Orchid" (which I downloaded from emusic.com, a pay-to-download mp3 service, so don't give me any shit about Opeth not getting their money from that) are official copies, jewel cases and all. That being said, I will defiintely wait to buy Damnation when it's released. Like others have said, nothing can compare to the joy of actually buying a long-awaited release from your favorite band. But back to the point at hand, the debate about downloading/"stealing" from artists....I download tons of albums at school (T1 connection and all). Most of these I get from emusic.com, so the artists do actually get paid for it. But the reason I download instead of buying the "real" albums (when I'm paying for it anyway) are quite simple:

1) It's cheaper to pay $10 a month to get any album they have than paying $15 apiece for an album.

2) Almost everything I download is stuff that I've never heard before, so I download it to see if I like it. If it's a band I find quite enjoyable, the chances are quite good that I will actually buy their next album instead of downloading it.

3) I don't think downloading is stealing from an artist. If anything, I think it builds an even stronger fanbase, and may even help them financially in the long run. If more people are exposed to a band, that translates to more people that will become fans, which translates into more copies of a new album sold, more merchandise sold, better concert ticket sales, etc. Maybe that band is getting ripped-off $15 at a time now, but those same "pirates" may very well pay that back that $15, and more, by going to shows and buying shirts, new albums, etc.

But still, I shall be patient and get an official copy of Damnation...
 
Guh....if anyone deserves our money and support, it's Opeth. I'll wait until the album is released, instead of downloading it. It's likely to be better quality when released on a proper cd. I'm tempted to download it, but I personally think it won't be such an enjoyable experience.
 
MulletGuy-
"I own about 260 albums...I'd guess that about 50-60% of those are burnt copies."

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whoseywhatsit?

More than 50% of your collection is ripped from the net?! How do you sleep at night?! :p Really now, does the band get the same amount of royalties when you buy it for less with the emusic.com compared to buying it a full price from the store/online store? If so, that's cool and all, but don't you miss the original artwork? The booklets with lyrics and credits galore?

"3) I don't think downloading is stealing from an artist. If anything, I think it builds an even stronger fanbase, and may even help them financially in the long run."

Yeah...but that's IF they make the long run. What IS the long run. 10, 20...30 years? I wish they'd get filthy stinking rich porn stars before it's known to be safe for such behavior.
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Originally posted by Opet
MulletGuy-
"I own about 260 albums...I'd guess that about 50-60% of those are burnt copies."

stunned.gif
whoseywhatsit?

More than 50% of your collection is ripped from the net?! How do you sleep at night?! :p Really now, does the band get the same amount of royalties when you buy it for less with the emusic.com compared to buying it a full price from the store/online store? If so, that's cool and all, but don't you miss the original artwork? The booklets with lyrics and credits galore?

"3) I don't think downloading is stealing from an artist. If anything, I think it builds an even stronger fanbase, and may even help them financially in the long run."

Yeah...but that's IF they make the long run. What IS the long run. 10, 20...30 years? I wish they'd get filthy stinking rich porn stars before it's known to be safe for such behavior.
pimp2.gif

Strangely enough, the band will get royalties, and when you see that most of the time a CD is mostly money to the record company then the price difference doesn't look that bad to be honest. This way the artists are still getting money, so this isn't a bad thing...