Studio owners please help

[krokit]

Hey guys I could really do with some help here as Im having big problems getting decent ryhthm and lead sounds at the studio where Ive recently started working from.

Usually this has never been a problem for me untill now! The band have definately noticed the difference aswell. This will be the 5th time that Ive recorded this band and they've always loved the guitar tones that I get for them but this time something is very odd!

Ive recorded this band at 2 other studios this last 2 years and the guitar tones were awesome, but at this studio the tones sound very dead and flat, as if all of the colour and charecter has been stripped right out! They sound limp and weak..! I noticed something wasnt right as soon as I heard the guitarist hit a chord..

The amps are Peavey 6505, Marshall 100w 2203 master voume and a Line 6 vetta 2. I always have the heads in the control room and the cabs in the live room. The recording chain is 57> Api 3124> Digi 192 and the rig is a Digi
HD3. Now you and I would expect this to sound cool but it sounds crap! No matter where I put the mic or how I tweak the amps the sound is dead. The guitarist is sayin that the guitar sound has no bollox, no sustain, no balls
and he's right! At the other 2 studios his guitar sound would tear your face off but here it's lifeless??
What is also interesting is that the guitarist uses a 'kidney' pod sometimes for a bit of variation which is always set excactly the same but even that is sounding dead and tinny!

I spoke to the studio owner about this and he said there is nothing wrong with his studio, but myself and the band 'know' something is'nt right.
Im sure there is a wiring issue or something as it reminds of when something is out phase, you know, when a sound is thin with a kind of comb filtering sound??

Guys believe me, its not my ears!! Anybody got any ideas, could it be a wiring issue?? How can a Les Paul with emg's into a 6505 into a 3124 sound limp??? This guitar rig usually sounds like machine head on steroids!

When I got back home I set up the 6505 with the same cab and it sounded awsome, loads of gain, sustain, fantastic!

Even at home where I use a 003 for overdubs I can get a wicked guitar tone so whats up with the HD3 system at the studio??


Any ideas guys??

 

[Joematthews]

Has his gitar got active pickups? If so, change the battery. Tube screamer? change the battery. Check all the cables, and then the wiring of the guitar.

Sounds like something easily resolved with a bit of time.

Joe

Edt. It has EMG's... New battery time.

 

[Fragle]

just a random thought, but are you talking about the actual sound coming out of the cab, that you hear when you're in the live room, or the recorded sound that you're hearing in the control room?

have you tried bringing one of your previous CDs with the crushing tone you were talking about in the studio and listen to it over their setup?

i might be way off, but maybe you're dealing with some very non-flattering monitors in the new studio that you're not quite used to (yet)?

 

[Styvo]

It does sound odd eyy,especially since you have worked with band in the past,and managed a good sound.

So....

I think you could be right in saying wiring might be messed up,but also whats the room doing?

It's so hard to say,but if your instincts are telling you somethings wrong,then there probably right.

Try,diff mics,diff pre's,different leads,cabs and gtrs,and if you are experiencing the same.....go somewhere else, if the owner won't work with you to resolve it.

 

[krokit]

Hey guys cheers for the help.

Yeah, all new batteries in in the emg's.

We tried a Gibson Flying V with emg's (18v mod)
Les Paul with Knuckledust (Kerry King ones I think)
Les Paul with stock humbuckers.

I know that the the control room will have a big effect on the sounds we are hearing as it has been finely tuned and the nearfields are PMC TB2SA's so we will be hearing the guitar sounds 'warts and all' which should be fine, but there's something else going on somehow??

I used to do a lot of session work playing lead guitar in a couple of the best studios in London so I recognised straight away that this wasnt the usual problems you get when recording high gain guitars ie mic positioning and amp/guitar set up ect. Im getting better results at home through my 003 set up!!

Cheers

 

[Joematthews]

Tried some different cables?

Joe

 

[krokit]

Tried some different cables?

Joe

Yeah, the guitarist has good quality cables and so has the studio!

Cheers Joe

 

[Jackal_Strain]

How is the acoustic treatment in the room? If the studio owner went overboard and dampened the mid to high range too much, it could have a negative effect on the sound you want. Ask if you can listen to some earlier guitar recordings done in the studio and see if this "dead character" is prevalent in oter recordings as well.

 

[krokit]

How is the acoustic treatment in the room? If the studio owner went overboard and dampened the mid to high range too much, it could have a negative effect on the sound you want. Ask if you can listen to some earlier guitar recordings done in the studio and see if this "dead character" is prevalent in oter recordings as well.

Cheers Jackal_Strain. When I first went to the studio I listened to some recordings that had been done there but there wasnt any metal bands unfortunately, it was mostly pop/indie so I didnt hear any high gain guitar sounds to compare with!

The control room is very professionally treated and you can hear the highs clearly yet its kind of dead also! Thin and crunchy tones rather than fat and creamy!

 

[gabriel g.]

I think you have checked every posibility on the gear? like batteries, Amps, Cabs, guitars,cables,strings(???),changed mics, changed mic-pres.....and you didnt find any solution?!?
What would I do?
I would buy a pod xt and play around with it. NOT FOR THE RECORDING!!!!, just to check if it is the room, that kills you guitar sound. If the pod sounds quite good, you know that the room is ok, so it must be some part of the gear or the room were the gear is placed!!!!
If the pod sounds quite good, I would put the Cab in the vocal booth (hopefully very dead and dry).
The sound should be dry and dead but also great sounding (with the gear you use)

 

[ahjteam]

If it also sounds like too compressed then it actually sounds kinda like the problem we have had at few venues I have been working (with a band and as a house engineer) on and each time the problem was in the electricity. Check if the voltage is normal with a powerconditioner or something, they cost ~100-200£:

edit: Also have you tried to use your own previous work as reference? Do they sound normal?

 

[Metaltastic]

Yeah, if you can afford it, a Furman Voltage Stabilizer is a really sound investment just to take one more variable out of the equation!

Here's one out of the 5 they offer; I don't really know the differences and which would suit your needs, but for a basic studio (rather than some FOH rig or something) I'd imagine it'd be sufficient!

 

[James Murphy]

could be an issue with the pass-through speaker cable from the control room to the live room where the cab is. i had this problem before and solved it by not using the panels... i just ran a long speaker cable out to the live room and closed the doors as far as i could... not perfect isolation, but good enough, and immediately solved my problem.

upon inspecting the pass-through cable i discovered it was a typical balanced cable and not a speaker cable at all.... take your own guesses at how the damn thing was wired to the panels.... i didn't bother to find out, i just stopped using it.... but if the + and - leads were cross-connected between the panels, that could account for phase issues. total cancelation you'd think, but .... don't know, i didn't inspect it further, but bypassing it with my own speaker cable solved the issue.

 

[if6was9]

answer us this- how does it sound in the room the cab is in?
That should eliminate alot of possibilities, if its crap in the room its likely what james said, if it sounds amazing in the room but that sound isn't being transfered back to the control room then you've got a whole different set of issues to deal with.
Are guitars the only problem here? have you experienced alot of problems with other stuff sounding weird too? if its just the guitar then to save time track that with you're home set up instead and do everything else in the studio

 

[krokit]

Cheers XGabrielX, in fact the guitarist did play through the studios pod xt as a guide when we tracked the drums and neither of us noticed anything odd about the sound in the control room..mmm

Id be pretty surprised if the studio didnt have a power conditioner as they seem to have everything but the kitchen sink but you never know so Ill definately check when I go down there, cheers ahjteam.
The Furman looks pretty good, I might get one of those myself, cheers Metaltastic.

The cables from the heads to the cabs were connected by the studio owner so I didnt see what he used but dodgy cables could well have been responsible, Im gonna check em out, good call James.

The sound in the live room was pretty dry sounding so I was expecting quite a tight tone when I listened in the control room, but the sound was 10 times as dry as I expected but not in a cool way, but in a bastard way lol! We tracked drums in the same room a month earlier and they was pretty dry also, even with a couple neumans about 20 ft away, so yeah Id say the room probably contributed to the dryness of the guitar sound. Thing is the guitarist had the head in the live room with his cab so that he could get his sound and then I took the head into the control room and thats when the long 'speaker' cable was used mmm....!

Great stuff guys, many thanks. Man, I love this place.

Ill keep ya posted.