Sturgis Style Vocal Tones - I cant believe I am asking this

guitarguru777

guitarguru777

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Nov 13, 2003
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First let me say normally I am able to pick things out pretty readily and fidn a way to make something work that the band likes, but this is eluding me, So any help would be appreciated.

Well it's finally happpened, had a band come into the studio this week and ask for that Joey Sturgis sound, not that its a bad thing of course.

I am wondering what these vocal chains typically looks like, and what type of verbs he is using. The band is specifically asking for "miss may i" style vocals, and everything I try just doesn't seem to have that really verby yet clean and distinguishable sound that he got on the latest CD. I am just having a really hard time.

Thanks
 
Doesn't help you but I am personally getting sick of bands asking for either the entire mix or elements of their mix to sound like another band's release. What I usually do is say "ok I can do that" and just do whatever works for the band. Haven't had anyone complain yet. Usually throw in lines like "well it's a cool sound but I felt like this really works for you guys, from an outside perspective" and shit like that. *shrug* Otherwise, Joey has mentioned how he gets his vocal sound, from the hardware chain to what plug-ins, in bits and pieces in threads here, just like his POD tact secrets.
 
I'd recommend starting with lots of editing. Lots and lots of editing. Go in line by line in auto-tune's graphic mode and tune them hard. Take their vocals apart syllable by syllable and make sure all the layers are perfectly in time.

On the cleans make sure to get the vocalists to sing out of their nose more than the mouth, and emphasize the whine factor of their voice as much as possible. This way the tough guy vocals will comparatively seem tougher.

Experiment with the right kind of vocal layering for their music. Production, arrangement and stacking is as much a part of the sound as anything here.
 
guitarguru777 said:
First let me say normally I am able to pick things out pretty readily and fidn a way to make something work that the band likes, but this is eluding me, So any help would be appreciated.

Well it's finally happpened, had a band come into the studio this week and ask for that Joey Sturgis sound, not that its a bad thing of course.

I am wondering what these vocal chains typically looks like, and what type of verbs he is using. The band is specifically asking for "miss may i" style vocals, and everything I try just doesn't seem to have that really verby yet clean and distinguishable sound that he got on the latest CD. I am just having a really hard time.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Double track everything edit tight as fuck like ermz said. Check the plea for purging thread ryan (catharsis) posted awhile ago he talks about his vocal layering on the album (and there was alot of it) Use an 1176 comp because I believe he uses his UAD 1176 (or atleast he used to??) as far as anything else goes I couldn't tell you. Compress the fuck out of everything, he also said he did that tooo lawlz. And check the Miss May I threads he might have posted stuff on those. <3333
 
i think with melodic vocals he uses an AT4040 » great river ME-1NV (which is probably half the sound, right there). then there is delivery coaching! (which is probably another huge part). then, of course there is editing (auto tune, pocket editing etc).

don't know about the reverb though... i think it's waves r-verb?

who really knows, anymore? =\
 
Thanks guys!

As for the editing and doubling everything I got that part down to a science :) I hate to say this but I dont have a good 1176 emulation VST so I guess its time to go out and get one. I just been using Waves and the Comp bundled with Sonar X1 on the last few projects.

As for the verb, it more how he gets the verb so thick without all the washy bullshit. I'm thining maybe do another vocal layer thats almost completely dry on top of a nice thick wet one ...

I appreciate all the advice.

As for bands asking for shit, I did try to do "my" mix with it, and it sounded great, but they didn't like it at all, and were very very specific as to how they wanted it to sound. It was a hard enough argument getting them to go with a real amp vs Pod Farm when they found out I had it ...lol

Keep in mind this is the same band that asked for the "I Killed The Prom Queen" style drums ...lol
 
Ermz said:
I'd recommend starting with lots of editing. Lots and lots of editing. Go in line by line in auto-tune's graphic mode and tune them hard. Take their vocals apart syllable by syllable and make sure all the layers are perfectly in time.

On the cleans make sure to get the vocalists to sing out of their nose more than the mouth, and emphasize the whine factor of their voice as much as possible. This way the tough guy vocals will comparatively seem tougher.

Experiment with the right kind of vocal layering for their music. Production, arrangement and stacking is as much a part of the sound as anything here.
Click to expand...


I know you're being serious and you're right...still, reading this made me chuckle ;)
 
You are sending your vocals to a reverb bus right? Although I never heard much of Joey's releases, sometimes I hear previews and stuff from when people post here, and the impression I got is that it seems he automates quite a lot the reverbs as well.

Try this, send your vocals to a reverb bus, load up an impulse loader with a thick plate or another reverb of your choice, and ON the reverb bus EQ with HP and LP, mainly to get rid of grainy high end typical of reverbs and compress it to taste, yes, compress the reverb signal, I've done this a lot, it's just depends on what the source needs but just try different shit, there's no exact way!


Ermz said:
On the cleans make sure to get the vocalists to sing out of their nose more than the mouth, and emphasize the whine factor of their voice as much as possible. This way the tough guy vocals will comparatively seem tougher.
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
EDIT: this is in reference to the getting your verby sound

I use a reverb bus or 2 (to avoid automation plugin automation). I label them "VoxRoom" because my style is to not think of the reverbs in terms of a reverb. but the illusion you're trying to create. in this case, you're trying to create an Atmosphere or Room for your vocals.

I use 2 sends for it and pan the reverb away from the vocals. to me this is one of the most important parts. it helps fill out some sonic space.
if you think you need to do 4 sends to do it properly, go for it. DAWs aren't that limiting. at least mine isn't.

you're gonna wanna start with a delay plug on the VoxRoom Bus(s). it's much more about the delay than the reverb plug to me. once I delay plug sounding good. I use a reverb plug next in the chain. once again. it's more about the delay. so if you have a reverb plug that has a "dry" & "wet" gain controls, you'll be doing great.
from there you'll need to do some compression & HP/LP work. you're gonna want to spend time carving your VoxRoom Bus(s) into the mix with some EQ treatment. get rid of some of the harsher highs & the boomy lows that will clog up your mix. once you get it cleaned up, you'll be able to make the VoxRoom Bus louder. giving the illusion that you're in a bigger sonic space than normal but without overwhelming the mix.
 
OT: so iv'e finally diceded to look up sturgis's work after reading this thread and iv'e just got to say:
first, you have to give it to him: it sounds amazing. every drum beat blows my freakin mind!
buttttttttttttttt
in terms of musically his productions represents everything that is wrond in the digital audio age.
there's just NOTHING standing behind the words and boring leads of the bands he produce's.
i'm sure you know what i mean......
it's like britney spears with a 6505!

or in one sentence:
KILL 'EM ALL is still the BEST FUCKING ALBUM EVER!
 
Arsenu said:
OT: so iv'e finally diceded to look up sturgis's work after reading this thread and iv'e just got to say:
first, you have to give it to him: it sounds amazing. every drum beat blows my freakin mind!
buttttttttttttttt
in terms of musically his productions represents everything that is wrond in the digital audio age.
there's just NOTHING standing behind the words and boring leads of the bands he produce's.
i'm sure you know what i mean......
it's like britney spears with a 6505!

or in one sentence:
KILL 'EM ALL is still the BEST FUCKING ALBUM EVER!
Click to expand...


Dude... that's not just OT. That's an outright attack against another forum member, who (like his work or not) has been a friendly, helpful contributor around here. People here have learned a few things from Joey. And from what I gather, it's been mostly from tips and tricks that he has volunteered from the outset.

Guru: Using an "all-wet" verb buss to send the vocals to will solve your particular problem. **Just a tip: I like to solo out just the verb buss, so that all I'm hearing is the reverb's reflection and tail, to help me sort out what kind of room sound i'm looking for. Then I'll solo the vocal track as well, and push the effect send way up. Then un-mute the other tracks and pull the vocal fx send down very gradually until it's just right.
 
maybe you didn't get me... i'm not saying there's something wrong with HIS work,
just the band's he produces which always seems to be those -core guys who woke up one morning and decided that metal is COOL without ever trying to understand the beuty and musicallity behind the genre.
iv'e seen to many of those guys and this new-age-childish-core shit...

if you thought i was attacking joey than i apologize.
besides the guy is fucking 25 years old and is already a brilliant producer, you can't argue with that....
 
Arsenu said:
just the band's he produces which always seems to be those -core guys who woke up one morning and decided that metal is COOL without ever trying to understand the beuty and musicallity behind the genre.
iv'e seen to many of those guys and this new-age-childish-core shit...
Click to expand...

Get over yourself.
80% of so called "old age" metal is just some middle aged dudes who should just cut their hair, take responsibility in life and start acting their age.
 
A. wer'e totally hijacking the thread...

however....

B. don't get me wrong, i'm not one of these "everything made after 1989 is shit!" guys. i LOVE trivium, lamb of god, nevermore and many more...
but there's a difference between new and new-age-bullshit.
there's using the digital sound revolution to inflict mind numbing heavy metal (Lamb Of God...)
and there's using that new amazing sound just to satisfy your brain's chemical joy achived from that clarity and LOUDNESS which is what all this core shit is about.

digital editing is supposed to ENHANCE MUSICALLITY, not to compansate for the lack of it...
what joey does is take crappy bands and turning them to rock stars using amazing sound and production,
which makes him a GREAT engineer and producer! and but man that guy polishes turds 'till theyr'e daimonds.....
 
I've got also the feeling that these guys do their songwriting, for example these staccato stuff, like this:
programming 4 bars full of 16-notes in guitar pro and delete some notes principle of contingency. You can also predict in most songs: ..... now sub/gaydrop....now break down... often very unmusical.

Dont want to start up to one's feet...just my opinion.
 
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