Jind
Grrrr!!! (I'm a bear)
- Mar 7, 2009
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He was the one that bumped it!!!
:Smokin:It had lay dormant for almost two months until Tuesday of this week when low and behold it was resurrected from pages deep by guess who...
Sun has been emitting unknown particles, carbon dating may be completely off
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He was the one that bumped it!!!
:Smokin:It had lay dormant for almost two months until Tuesday of this week when low and behold it was resurrected from pages deep by guess who...
Genius Gone Insane
http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Linear_Collider
^If dark matter is proven not to exist, someone is going to lose out on $25,000,000,000. I believe that makes it very unlikely for any other theory to gain any solid footing.
^I am not advocating electric universe theory (yet) but according to the EU folks, if plasma is what drives the universe then there is no need for dark matter.
^If dark matter is proven not to exist, someone is going to lose out on $25,000,000,000. I believe that makes it very unlikely for any other theory to gain any solid footing.
^I am not advocating electric universe theory (yet) but according to the EU folks, if plasma is what drives the universe then there is no need for dark matter.
Atheist
Who'r u calling a Junior?
First, dark mater isn't a thing (or things). It's a term for something that's yet to be discovered. "Dark" part is ok, we don't see it, so ok, lets call it dark. "Matter"... well, this might turn out to be a bad work to use there, but it's just a word! Calculations say there more gravity than we expect from the matter we see, so the excess gravity comes from something. It might be some new particle, it might be the great Ju-ju in the sky or it might not be one thing that's causing it, but something much more complicated... we don't know yet. But lets just use the term "dark matter" until we know what it is.
Now for the accelerator... Wikipedia says it will "Investigate the lightest supersymmetric particles, possible candidates for dark matter". And it might find that those particles have nothing to do with dark matter. Good! That's a good scientific result because we will know more than we new before the experiment.
There are people who don't understand this. Hopefully, there won't be too many of those between people who decide whether these thing get financed.
Genius Gone Insane
http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com
^Is it worth 25 billion dollars to find out that dark matter is not matter at all?
Let's suppose that this "crackpot" scientific research turns out to be correct, released a couple days ago:
The R. M. Santilli Foundation Announces Experimental Confirmation That The Universe Is Not Expanding
What would happen to the 25 billion dollars? You can't just decommit from spending $25 billion. You think the powers that be would let some crackpot scientist get in the way of their $25 billion project?
Let's suppose that this "crackpot" scientific research turns out to be correct, released a couple days ago:
The R. M. Santilli Foundation Announces Experimental Confirmation That The Universe Is Not Expanding
What would happen to the 25 billion dollars? You can't just decommit from spending $25 billion. You think the powers that be would let some crackpot scientist get in the way of their $25 billion project?
LOL holy shit. Earth is center of universe (EDIT - in an expanding universe). Universe not expanding: proved by photo of the sun.
How do you even FIND this shit? Have you ever considered seeking out information concerning NON-crackpot physics???????????
Genius Gone Insane
http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com
^I think you should for one minute consider that I may not be the lazy, uneducated, pothead idiot that seemingly everyone here assumes and reread the article because you either skimmed over it and misunderstood or completely misread it.
Atheist
Who'r u calling a Junior?
It's worth exactly the same as to find that it is. I repeat, experiment is done to test whether something is true or not. Both are valid results!
You can continue repeating that something might be true, but that doesn't make it any more plausible. You can't just play "what if" without any logic and consideration for current understanding of how universe works.
Lets say you start building house on the ground and someone says "What if gravity starts working sideways tomorrow." You cannot prove that it won't, but based on your current knowledge you are pretty sure you can continue building it the way to started.
Yes you can. That's just twice as much as Superconducting Super Collider which was scrapped after 12 billion dollars.
And even if dark matter gets explain in some other way while ILC is being built, it would still be used for other experiments and possibly for new ones which would emerge from that new knowledge about dark matter.
Genius Gone Insane
http://www.¯\(°_o)/¯.com
There were other reasons that the Superconducting Super Collider were scrapped that had nothing to do with the research it was designed for:
"Many factors contributed to the cancellation:[3] rising cost estimates; poor management by physicists and Department of Energy officials; the end of the need to prove the supremacy of American science with the collapse of the Soviet Union; belief that many smaller scientific experiments of equal merit could be funded for the same cost; Congress's desire to generally reduce spending; the reluctance of Texas Governor Ann Richards;[15] and President Bill Clinton's initial lack of support for a project begun during the administrations of Richards's predecessor, Bill Clements, and Clinton's predecessors, Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush" -wikipedia
...Regarding the $25 billion, it is a matter of opinion but I for one would be highly disappointed if it cost us that much money to disprove the conclusion that dark matter is a type of matter.
"Many factors contributed to the cancellation:[3] rising cost estimates; poor management by physicists and Department of Energy officials; the end of the need to prove the supremacy of American science with the collapse of the Soviet Union; belief that many smaller scientific experiments of equal merit could be funded for the same cost; Congress's desire to generally reduce spending; the reluctance of Texas Governor Ann Richards;[15] and President Bill Clinton's initial lack of support for a project begun during the administrations of Richards's predecessor, Bill Clements, and Clinton's predecessors, Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush" -wikipedia
...Regarding the $25 billion, it is a matter of opinion but I for one would be highly disappointed if it cost us that much money to disprove the conclusion that dark matter is a type of matter.
Quantum interactions govern things, but that's not anywhere near the same as 'there really isn't any physical matter at all'.
It's what happens *all the time*. Your hypothetical concern holds no ground against *actual events*, and again you're just talking nonsense.
Have you considered for one minute that scientists may not be clueless fuckwits? You certainly aren't in any position to say anything about misunderstanding and misreading things, and if you want that assumption to be turned around then *read a damn book written by a real scientist, not this crackpot electric universe nonsense*.
First, you're not in a position to be advocating *anything*, and the electric universe 'theory' is a massive load of wank. Second, we're going to get more than our money's worth out of any collider we build, regardless of whether or not *one* of the *many* ideas it's testing is already settled by its opening date. Third, once again your imagination runs wildly contrary to reality - and the implication that scientists will ignore a viable (key word: viable... for example, NOT COMING FROM SANTILLI OR ELECTRIC UNIVERSE CRACKPOTS) theory just to justify a shiny toy is preposterous and far more insulting than anything that's been thrown at you yet.
Seriously... just read *one goddamn real physics book*. The fringe bullshit and devoted lack of apparent knowledge is why you're being viewed as *FAR WORSE* than a 'lazy, uneducated, pothead idiot'.
Jef
LeSedna
Mat or Mateo
The thing is that until a better formula exists (in the large sense of it), dark matter will be called "matter" because so far, until proven otherwise (see how careful I am, GGI?), gravitation comes from matter. It is a valid name, up to the point when research gets more specific and theories are formed (it is therefore normal another term is used in a theory where not only matter as we know it creates gravity).
In any case, for any "dark matter" existing, there should be - in the bigger hypothetical formula including matter and what-we-are-searching-for (as two separate terms maybe) - an equivalent-to-matter number, which then will have the Kg unit (if you have any basic understanding of mathematics, physics, and units, you should see what I mean).
That is why I am fine with the term "matter" until someone comes up with something revolutionary, and especially, proven.
However, if you can break down this "number" in several parts multiplied/divided to each other, with their own units, they would not be called matter anymore, but the assembly could. Using equivalences in physics, or even imaginary instances of "things", is common practice. In electricity for example, you play with imaginary rotations of electric values (to put it a simple way) in calculation, and only present the final result in real formulas. But in between, the terms make little sense and can be called with simple names such as "tension" because they are actually, unit wise, a tension. And I'm not even talking matrices and hilbertian spaces or tensors or application of algebra to the real world.
LeSedna
Mat or Mateo
You just fail at understanding science. And, you fail twice, because if it happened, it would just prove science can go back another route when it discovers it is wrong (which it does, by the way).
In short terms, you fail at realizing science does what you want it to do.
Phew
Also, I am happy to spend 25G dollars on such a project, as opposed to spending 60 or 80 or more in the Dubai "world islands" or whatever it is called (which is btw abandoned). This is nothing compared to the world debt, and not even relevant compared to the business of military armement in the whole world. If my taxes have to go somewhere, I want them there. As JBroll said himself, this is only an investment for future income, just like you can find NASA derived technology in your pants or your washing machine.
Figure 3: VISUAL EVIDENCE OF THE LACK OF EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE.
As illustrated by this picture, Santilli has indicated since 1991 [9] that the redness the Sun at Sunset constitutes visual evidence of the lack of expansion of the universe since we have the loss of energy by Sunlight to air, with consequential redshift, without any relative motion between the Sun, the atmosphere and the observer. The same picture also constitutes visual evidence of the absence of the acceleration of the expansion, because the redness of the Sun increases with the decrease of the elevation, that is, with the increase of the travel by Sunlight in air. Measurements [11-15] have essentially confirmed the validity of Santilli's isotopic derivation (7) of Hubble's law (1) and dismissed its Doppler interpretation (2), with consequential dismissal of conjectures 1) to 7).
This is enough for me, as the guy didn't understand some of the simplest principles of light curve/diffraction of light in the air (i.e. because of its particle rejecting light rays in different directions with an angle depending on the wavelenghts, for these frequencies - the high ones which are the ones from purple and blue - have wavelengths close to the energetic colours ones). He claims the redshift cannot come from that when the ray comes from the sun but it is incorrect as light colour doesn't come only from the object itself but also from the environment.
Also he is simply incorrect from the beginning, because if the high energy colors are derived from their original track, the receiver who is in the exact direction of the original ray will only receive the light made of the full spectrum minus the derived spectrum. He is right into saying the direct ray, if received, means no derivation was done on it (it was lucky in going to the eye without meeting any molecule) so we should see the sun in its true colour.
However this would mean neglecting the curved rays, of various frequencies and various colours, coming from nearby white/yellow rays, that end up to the eye although they were supposed to aim at another point next to the observer. The result is, you guessed it, a colour removed of the purple/blue frequencies. He is therefore searching for the explanation of a problem that is non existent in the very case of the sunset.
He does have a background as he refers to many genuine laws and principles, Rayleigh and stuff, but just this part I read caught my attention.
Also :
Scientific paradigms and conspiracies
In his book Il Grande Grido: Ethical Probe on Einstein's Followers in the U.S.A, an Insiders View, Santilli claims that in many institutions there is an effective conspiracy to suppress or not investigate novel theories which may conflict with established scientific theories, such as Einstein's theory of relativity. Institutions receive funding and have established entire departments dedicated to long established theories, and so he argues that these same institutions are ill equipped to challenge their own scientific paradigms with new theories. Santilli claimed that a number of scientists, including Nobel Laureates Sheldon Glashow and Steven Weinberg conspired, while he was at Harvard, to stop him from conducting research which might have led to the inapplicability of part of Einstein's theory of relativity.[21][22] He has complained that papers he has submitted to peer-reviewed American Physical Society journals were rejected because they were controlled by a group of Jewish physicists led by Steven Weinberg.[23]
... screams "I am a crackpot" to me.
Atheist
Who'r u calling a Junior?
Jind
Grrrr!!! (I'm a bear)
- Mar 7, 2009
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xFkx
gain induction
yeah, sorry, it's quite difficult to explain what's on my mind. All I wanted to say is when using the word "matter" things get tricky, the word sort of implies something more or less tangible. When entering the quantum world, the ways we intuitively perceive our reality become useless, so there might be a whole lot of "something" out there, but it's not some big black blob flying around that we might associate with the word matter in it's intuitive "tangible" meaning. Acctualy I think i'm trying to explain it to myslef, so be patient
monoxide_child
New Metal Member
- Jul 30, 2008
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just now clicked on the original link in the first post
guess what??
it's "no longer available"
which is prolly just because it was total bullshit to begin with
guess what??
it's "no longer available"
which is prolly just because it was total bullshit to begin with