Not in the least. Back in the 80s and 90s I had a slew of penpals all over the world and we traded tapes regularly. Mix tapes, usually, and not full albums, but that was also an option.
The Downloading Poll (at the behest of Management)
- Thread starter General Zod
- Start date
Not in the least. Back in the 80s and 90s I had a slew of penpals all over the world and we traded tapes regularly. Mix tapes, usually, and not full albums, but that was also an option.
You had to ask you pen pal to make you the tape, they had to actually dupe the tape and then ship it half way around the world. That's hardly analogous to clicking a link and having a full disc, of digital quality music, on your hard drive within the half hour. And even than, you were limited by the number of pen pals you had.
I guess my point is, regardless of how many friends you had and where they lived, comparing the multitude of available sources to download digital music and trading analog cassettes with friends, isn't really a fair comparison.
Zod
Well, in all likelihood, the music she and her friends are trading, is of the Justin Timberlake variety. Since I'm of the opinion that quality should determine price, his music should be free. So, no harm, no foul.
On a more serious note, I have no doubt that the more commercially successful artists (<--- if you can consider someone who doesn't write or play music an artist) are impacted much more than those in niche genres.
Zod
eaeolian
Division Guitarist
edgeofthorns
24 Hours Ago...
I have to say that I'm against the illegal type of downloading. Personally, I don't do the legal downloading either, because I'd rather buy the actual CD package instead of air. I do have to admit that I'm guilty of buying used CDs some though, but it's mostly just old mainstream stuff. Believe me, you can't find too many used prog or power metal CDs in Johnson City, Tennessee! 
I don't buy on Ebay, because I just don't trust what I'm buying, so that's not an option for me either. I do buy on Amazon some, but private sellers charge almost as much as regular distributors, so you're better off just buying it new.
My best recommendation is to buy your CDs from Ken, Zane, Lance, or whoever you feel comfortable with and support the bands that we love. Piss on downloading!
~Brian~
I don't buy on Ebay, because I just don't trust what I'm buying, so that's not an option for me either. I do buy on Amazon some, but private sellers charge almost as much as regular distributors, so you're better off just buying it new. My best recommendation is to buy your CDs from Ken, Zane, Lance, or whoever you feel comfortable with and support the bands that we love. Piss on downloading!
~Brian~
Belligerent
Greekus Urungus
Who are you Porcupine Tree''s promoter?
...Well Mr.$Bags.
I buy a LOT of music. I dunno about you but I have mortgage etc so I have to watch it. Most shows I attend are never 35-40 dollars...more like 15.
I buy a cd a week so "I still buy what I like if the $ is there" is very reasonable.
ALowerDeep
Member
So, if you see a ring you like and don't have the money for it you just steal it? Hey you've bought other rings in the past, you buy a peice of jewerly a week, so since you don't have the money for this particular ring it is ok to steal it. Hmm, seems to be a problem with the logic on that one.
Okay, let's bring a new facet into the conversation...since it's pretty much directly involved with downloading...what about BONUS TRACKS? Huh?
You all know what I'm talking about. A band releases an album internationally, and certain countries (especially Japan) get bonus tracks. Now, you buy the album in your country, but would like the bonus tracks as well, but don't have the money to import ANOTHER copy of the album, so you can have the bonus tracks. Is it wrong to download these tracks illegally?
You all know what I'm talking about. A band releases an album internationally, and certain countries (especially Japan) get bonus tracks. Now, you buy the album in your country, but would like the bonus tracks as well, but don't have the money to import ANOTHER copy of the album, so you can have the bonus tracks. Is it wrong to download these tracks illegally?
Belligerent
Greekus Urungus
^
Nothing wrong w/ it at all.
I dloaded Opeth's cover of Soldier of Fortune off of Roadrunners 6month later release of Ghost Reveries and was disappointed...glad I didnt buy that.
Nothing wrong w/ it at all.
I dloaded Opeth's cover of Soldier of Fortune off of Roadrunners 6month later release of Ghost Reveries and was disappointed...glad I didnt buy that.
JenniferLynn
AKA Irish
There was a form that I had to get signed by a parent that allowed me to get a job at that age... It make take some doing and effort but it's not impossible...
I've tried that too. I've been trying to get a job for awhile now, but atleast here in Pawtucket, Rhode Island, they won't hire unless you're sixteen. Parents signature or not, I can't get a job.
Schools in NY have a work program where you go to your guidance counselour and they will help you out. Though with it being summer now, I'm not sure how that would work. Or just go around the neighborhood and offer mowing services. Make a flyer and put it in people's post boxes. If there's any nearby developments, those are perfect.
KingsGene
God of Thunder
Here's another artist's take on it....Porcupine Tree's main man Steve Wilson:
"This is the worst time in history for the music industry. Everyone agrees on it, artists and labels - everyone involved.
I believe that ultimately what will happen is that recorded music will become something no one will pay for. People will expect to get it for free, even now a lot of people don't think about buying music, just to download it. Recorded music will become an advertisement for the live show. I already see it in Porcupine Tree concerts, where the attendances keep on growing, and the record sales as well, but not in the same proportion.
People get to know the band from downloading on the internet for free but they pay for the shows. This has a positive side, because it means that bands who play real instruments, and can manage a good live show will survive, and the kind of manufactured artists like Britney Spears won't. These are interesting times.
Also, music is much more available now days, it's getting more and more into people's life, especially that almost everyone has an Ipod now."
Read more at: http://www.alternative-zine.com/interviews/en/110
"This is the worst time in history for the music industry. Everyone agrees on it, artists and labels - everyone involved.
I believe that ultimately what will happen is that recorded music will become something no one will pay for. People will expect to get it for free, even now a lot of people don't think about buying music, just to download it. Recorded music will become an advertisement for the live show. I already see it in Porcupine Tree concerts, where the attendances keep on growing, and the record sales as well, but not in the same proportion.
People get to know the band from downloading on the internet for free but they pay for the shows. This has a positive side, because it means that bands who play real instruments, and can manage a good live show will survive, and the kind of manufactured artists like Britney Spears won't. These are interesting times.
Also, music is much more available now days, it's getting more and more into people's life, especially that almost everyone has an Ipod now."
Read more at: http://www.alternative-zine.com/interviews/en/110
Since we're looking at how the artists view it, here are Jon Schaffer's comments from an interview I did with him:
Greg: OK. Let me see if I can sneak in one more question before our time runs out here. I want to get your take on MP3s. Given that you guys dont get a lot of exposure in the mainstream media, do you think that theyre a necessary evil or just plain old evil?
Jon: I dont have an MP3 player and Im not involved in all that. This whole digital age has hurt the music business, big time. And its not just hurting the labels, its hurting the artists too. I dont think people really understand that. I dont think theres anything we can do about it. And its not just fucking up the music business, its also with films. Its so much easier to steal stuff, and make it great quality now, and its really created an issue.
Jon: In some ways I think the big majors have created this monster, because they fucked people for so long by putting out products that maybe had one or two good tracks, and then charged an outrageous price when it was so cheap to manufacture. So I think this is biting them in the ass, because I think people are like, You know what, if I dont have to spend $16 on the record and theres two songs on it that are good and the rest of its shit, than Im just going to take it for free.
Jon: But I think that Iced Earth and Blind Guardian, guys like that are pretty fortunate, because with our fans, theres this loyalty there, and I dont think its hurt us like its hurt a lot of other bands. It may knock sales back 10% 15%, or something like that . which is a lot, but not as much as some people are effected. But then again, we have the kind of fan base that knows that were going to put out quality stuff. Theyre going to want the album, the art, the lyrics they want to support the band. Theres a much stronger sense of loyalty there then there is with the big mainstream stuff. So I think were pretty luck in that.
Greg: Im kind of glad to hear you say that. Ive always felt that theres a sense of loyalty within this community, that the people who listen to the music get it, that the artists are trying to make a living, theyre not driving Rolls Royces. You need to buy the CDs, you need buy the t-shirts, you need to go see them live, and I always wondered if that feeling trickled up, if you will, to the artists.
Jon: Oh definitely.
Greg: Thats good to hear.
Jon: Were in tune with whats going on, from talking to people. Its very obvious to me and Hansi, the difference between our fan base and some mainstream commercial act. OK, theyre selling millions of records TODAY. Who knows what theyre going to be doing tomorrow. They dont have a sense of loyalty, and those are the kind of guys that nobody gives a shit if their burning their CDs and ripping them off. Its a whole different animal.
Greg: OK. Let me see if I can sneak in one more question before our time runs out here. I want to get your take on MP3s. Given that you guys dont get a lot of exposure in the mainstream media, do you think that theyre a necessary evil or just plain old evil?
Jon: I dont have an MP3 player and Im not involved in all that. This whole digital age has hurt the music business, big time. And its not just hurting the labels, its hurting the artists too. I dont think people really understand that. I dont think theres anything we can do about it. And its not just fucking up the music business, its also with films. Its so much easier to steal stuff, and make it great quality now, and its really created an issue.
Jon: In some ways I think the big majors have created this monster, because they fucked people for so long by putting out products that maybe had one or two good tracks, and then charged an outrageous price when it was so cheap to manufacture. So I think this is biting them in the ass, because I think people are like, You know what, if I dont have to spend $16 on the record and theres two songs on it that are good and the rest of its shit, than Im just going to take it for free.
Jon: But I think that Iced Earth and Blind Guardian, guys like that are pretty fortunate, because with our fans, theres this loyalty there, and I dont think its hurt us like its hurt a lot of other bands. It may knock sales back 10% 15%, or something like that . which is a lot, but not as much as some people are effected. But then again, we have the kind of fan base that knows that were going to put out quality stuff. Theyre going to want the album, the art, the lyrics they want to support the band. Theres a much stronger sense of loyalty there then there is with the big mainstream stuff. So I think were pretty luck in that.
Greg: Im kind of glad to hear you say that. Ive always felt that theres a sense of loyalty within this community, that the people who listen to the music get it, that the artists are trying to make a living, theyre not driving Rolls Royces. You need to buy the CDs, you need buy the t-shirts, you need to go see them live, and I always wondered if that feeling trickled up, if you will, to the artists.
Jon: Oh definitely.
Greg: Thats good to hear.
Jon: Were in tune with whats going on, from talking to people. Its very obvious to me and Hansi, the difference between our fan base and some mainstream commercial act. OK, theyre selling millions of records TODAY. Who knows what theyre going to be doing tomorrow. They dont have a sense of loyalty, and those are the kind of guys that nobody gives a shit if their burning their CDs and ripping them off. Its a whole different animal.
yardleybates
Chick Wrangler
Well, in all likelihood, the music she and her friends are trading, is of the Justin Timberlake variety. Since I'm of the opinion that quality should determine price, his music should be free. So, no harm, no foul.
Zod
Wa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Love ya Zod! (Kisses to that gorgeous bride of yours btw)
KingsGene said:
Woo Hoo We can only hope!
He should get one and start downloading. He might find some new riffs. The ones he has are a good 10 years stale at this point.
I'm glad you put that because I was tempted to make a comment along those lines but I've heard plenty of people say that it's the small guys that are hurt more simply because they're already selling fewer records. However, comparitively, the amount of money that will go into the new Iced Earth album over something like the new Justin Timberlake or Linkin Park is minimal. Yet despite all that money for advertising, there is a far greater division between the fan and the artist so that it is unlikely that the fan will ever feel guilty for not being one of the million or so that will buy a record. Meanwhile, we have many of the actual artists posting here and you basically have to be an asshole to say that you have no plans to buy so and so's record just because you can get it for free.
booB
Señor Member
I'll let you give them to her yourself in October.
be careful what you wish for... you might not see your wife the rest of the weekend.
From what I've seen, most of the outright theft is being done by people who wouldn't even be able to buy the CD if they wanted to. Teenagers and the like. I'd imagine another huge chunk are people in countries where the album isn't being released.
While that doesn't excuse their behavior, it does mean there's not much money being left on the table.
In my estimation, and having worked in the CD distributor business, artists and record companies are losing far more money on illegal resale of promos. I don't know how many times I've bought a supposedly new CD on ebay and got a promo. I've also received a lot of promos as a benefit of my job, which are CDs I'm not buying that I would have bought if I didn't work where I do.
I notice that a lot of people on this board get promos as well. Obviously, I'm not blaming those of us who receive them, the record companies gave them to us of their own free will and we are under no obligation to replace them with the retail album if we don't want to. But it is resulting in maybe 25-50% of these promos eventually ending up in the hands of people who would have bought the retail version.
The downloaders aren't going to buy anything anyway, even if you take away downloading. They'll just go back to recording off the radio or MTV and burning copies. Oh, and the secondary promo market will get a lot hotter on Ebay.
While that doesn't excuse their behavior, it does mean there's not much money being left on the table.
In my estimation, and having worked in the CD distributor business, artists and record companies are losing far more money on illegal resale of promos. I don't know how many times I've bought a supposedly new CD on ebay and got a promo. I've also received a lot of promos as a benefit of my job, which are CDs I'm not buying that I would have bought if I didn't work where I do.
I notice that a lot of people on this board get promos as well. Obviously, I'm not blaming those of us who receive them, the record companies gave them to us of their own free will and we are under no obligation to replace them with the retail album if we don't want to. But it is resulting in maybe 25-50% of these promos eventually ending up in the hands of people who would have bought the retail version.
The downloaders aren't going to buy anything anyway, even if you take away downloading. They'll just go back to recording off the radio or MTV and burning copies. Oh, and the secondary promo market will get a lot hotter on Ebay.
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