The Evolution of Human Consciousness and the Idea of the Technological Singularity

[razoredge]

The clear difference between pacemakers and cyborgs is why I chose the pacemaker example. I'm interested in what level of artificial enhancement is deemed 'acceptable' and why that level is acceptable but a greater level is not. Deep brain stimulation implants are a significant jump along the evolutionary ladder towards cyborg, would it help your poor black and white mind to think about those instead?

For me no amount of intervention is acceptable, Im a live and let die person. Have been since I was 12 when my mother died of a brain tumor but not until after the med profession made hundreds of thousnands first.

Deep brain stimulation implants and evolution in the same sentence ? Well heres to major malfunctioning circuits and electronic breakdown causing sudden death to those so arrogant to feel they deserve more than they were born with... or is that a lack of self esteem rather than arrogance ? Or perhaps mankinds lazyness which fuels his endless pursuit to enslave someone/anything ?

My black and white mind mentioned in the same subject as electronic intelligence is interesting as well. Its amusing that those who whole heartedly believe that after 70 years give or take... all is for nothing anyhow yet cant be happy with what they were born with.

I suppose part of the human mental evolution has been all about plasticity anyhow.

 

[Dak]

The clear difference between pacemakers and cyborgs is why I chose the pacemaker example. I'm interested in what level of artificial enhancement is deemed 'acceptable' and why that level is acceptable but a greater level is not. Deep brain stimulation implants are a significant jump along the evolutionary ladder towards cyborg, would it help your poor black and white mind to think about those instead?

I don't think you can argue a pace maker as an "enhancement", since it gives a human no extra abilities over another normal human being. Rather it merely allows someone to continue living by stimulating a heart to function normally. Not exactly "enhancing".

 

[Blowtus]

My black and white mind mentioned in the same subject as electronic intelligence is interesting as well. Its amusing that those who whole heartedly believe that after 70 years give or take... all is for nothing anyhow yet cant be happy with what they were born with.

Fuck happiness and acceptance, I'll take existential angst and striving thanks

 

[Blowtus]

I don't think you can argue a pace maker as an "enhancement", since it gives a human no extra abilities over another normal human being. Rather it merely allows someone to continue living by stimulating a heart to function normally. Not exactly "enhancing".

So prolonged life is not an enhancement - ok. How about we artificially raise the intelligence of all those who are currently 'below normal' up to 'normal'?

I think it should be fairly clear that there is no obvious line where 'normal healthcare' stops and 'artificial enhancement' starts. It's just your regular run of the mill culturally entrenched value judgment...

 

[Dak]

Intelligence is subjective. Pumping blood is objective.

 

[Blowtus]

... so? What difference does it make if I quantified it as 'artificially raising the level of blahdeblah in the brain, resulting in higher iq scores and performance on mental tasks.'

 

[Dak]

Intelligence is different from person to person. Everyone with a proper functioning heart,liver,kidney(s), etc. is the same. They are utility organs for body function.

To keep these organs functioning as normal is not an enhancement but merely keeping a person at "100% natural operating capacity".

If you were to replace (for example) the muscle/skeletal systems in the legs to allow for faster running/higher jumping etc, this would not be maintaining "100% natural operating capacity" but increasing to an above 100% capability.

An imperfect analogy I know but it's a difficult subject.

 

[Dak]

The Problems of Transhumanism

Haven't gotten around to reading this, but it should be applicable to this thread.

 

[Blowtus]

Intelligence is different from person to person. Everyone with a proper functioning heart,liver,kidney(s), etc. is the same. They are utility organs for body function.

To keep these organs functioning as normal is not an enhancement but merely keeping a person at "100% natural operating capacity".

If you were to replace (for example) the muscle/skeletal systems in the legs to allow for faster running/higher jumping etc, this would not be maintaining "100% natural operating capacity" but increasing to an above 100% capability.

An imperfect analogy I know but it's a difficult subject.

Cool. So long as my brain is intact then it's cool and unsatanic if I chuck it in some uberbot with '100% natural operating capacity' in all 'physical' regards. Whatever the fuck that is. Does anyone have more than 100% natural capacity, or is 100% the extreme end that presumably no athlete has yet reached?

 

[razoredge]

Call me uneducated and retarded (of lower brain function) but if I'm rationalizing this "brain implant" properly it will be done by those that can afford it and will be done as a means to further dominate those who can not.

By that I can only add that no one is bullet proof so best be done on the sly because the general public is not going to tolerate it. In fact suspecion is comming into play that the general public is currently being pressed toward the limits of how much more they are going to tolerate. Time will tell.

 

[Dak]

Cool. So long as my brain is intact then it's cool and unsatanic if I chuck it in some uberbot with '100% natural operating capacity' in all 'physical' regards. Whatever the fuck that is. Does anyone have more than 100% natural capacity, or is 100% the extreme end that presumably no athlete has yet reached?

You left out organic.

Call me uneducated and retarded (of lower brain function) but if I'm rationalizing this "brain implant" properly it will be done by those that can afford it and will be done as a means to further dominate those who can not.

By that I can only add that no one is bullet proof so best be done on the sly because the general public is not going to tolerate it. In fact suspecion is comming into play that the general public is currently being pressed toward the limits of how much more they are going to tolerate. Time will tell.

This is a seperate issue, but just as much of a problem. Transhumanist proponents are already talking abou the division of humanoids along the lines of a priviliged elite class and a "goblin-like", unintelligent worker-drone class.

 

[razoredge]

or is 100% the extreme end that presumably no athlete has yet reached?

and sports currently has rules in effort to eliminate drug enhancement leading to an unlevel playing field... that and other ethical reasons... one of which might be long term health.

Imagine a olympics with people running manufactured limbs, then it will become a big circus of manufacturers fighting to develope the best after market legs...... how orgasmic

Im not a religious man by any means but if this kind of stuff were to take place I would be on my knees begging for the coming of the lord.

Even well seasoned motor sports people will admit its not as exciting as it once was when everyones technology and application of such was more diverse.

Many musically inclinded people will say various styles of music today are not as interesting or soulful or ____ {pick your more favorable term} as they were during their birthing years.

Its the human element, the grass to the concrete, the woodlands to the pararies, the seas to the mountains that make this world worth living in, complete control and dominance become dulled and dry.

Just my opinion of course... anyone not agreeing with it can go live in a roaming cold steel star ship with their bionic limbs and enhanced mind and the world will be better off without them. Then they can have their idea of Heaven and I can live in my idea of Heaven... much more heavenly without them and sure to last longer.

Technology gave us war machines, fossil burning giants, scary nuclear power plants, computor intrusion, patriot act, satelite spy capacity, a few bags of moon rocks, children that dont ride bicycles... do I see a pattern here ?

We marvel at the ancient artists, painters, writers, composers, architects.

We frown, settle, critique or walk aimlessly past and through the works of modern times by a more "advanced" society

So much to ponder

 

[razoredge]

Sorry Jarman {Pat} I know your idea was to entertain the possibilities not the ethics or personal beliefs. This is just where pondering such a topic leads me because these are the possibilities that come to my mind.

 

[Dak]

I don't think technological possibilities should be discussed separately from the corresponding ethical questions.

 

[hexwind]

Technology gave us war machines, fossil burning giants, scary nuclear power plants, computor intrusion, patriot act, satelite spy capacity, a few bags of moon rocks, children that dont ride bicycles... do I see a pattern here ?

We marvel at the ancient artists, painters, writers, composers, architects.

We frown, settle, critique or walk aimlessly past and through the works of modern times by a more "advanced" society

So much to ponder

If we were better creatures, would we use it in the right way? or technology brings its consequences independently of its use? or other factors participated in this to have such consequences? Are we getting more evil, or we are just discovering our dark side ,as humans, deeper?

 

[Dak]

I would say that we are not becoming any more evil, just that is being unleashed on a wider scale, and that while technology does not do this by it's existence, it's existence is power, and power has always corrupted.

 

[Blowtus]

Call me uneducated and retarded (of lower brain function) but if I'm rationalizing this "brain implant" properly it will be done by those that can afford it and will be done as a means to further dominate those who can not.

If we halted technological progress at the point where those capable of utilising it benefited more than those not presently capable, we'd still be bare arsed and scratching ourselves with twigs... the nature of it is that some people get the new shit first, but it eventually filters down.

 

[Blowtus]

We frown, settle, critique or walk aimlessly past and through the works of modern times by a more "advanced" society

Far as I'm aware it's just the normal state of things for people to assume the world is going to shit and things used to be better. Personally I think I'd probably prefer my current life and technology to that of a 14th century peasant or the like.

I have not been arguing that transhumanism is some 'ideal' goal. I just think it's ignorant and lacking perspective to think there will be some obvious 'yes or no' choice to make regarding it. Ever since we started clothing ourselves we've been applying technology to making our person more useful for our goals. The differences in technology levels seem obvious only because we are familiar with / habituated to some and not with others...

 

[Dak]

The differences in technology levels seem obvious only because we are familiar with / habituated to some and not with others...

Some of this has to do with the exponential growth explosion of technology since the early 1900s, and then the even greater acceleration since the wide-scale implementation computing and the internet.

Technology has progressed much to fast for the average person to keep up with outside of simplified entertainment mediums (for the most part), leaving the more advanced (and practical) devices to those with deep pockets and/or their own personal science teams.

 

[razoredge]

If we were better creatures, would we use it in the right way? or technology brings its consequences independently of its use? or other factors participated in this to have such consequences? Are we getting more evil, or we are just discovering our dark side ,as humans, deeper?

Well what Dakryn replied.

We were always waring bitches, always lazy bitches (slavery), always passively one eye blind (polution), always self centered bitches, always greedy bitches... I guess the human race is nothing but BITCHES... LOL

Technology just increases the odds and catastrophic results