The frustrations of teamwork...

[H-evolve]

Teamwork can have its frustrations. Especially in music, where your personal taste is pretty much what is driving your creativity.

Have you guys ever had episodes when you were working on something with a friend and he'd just be extremely stubborn. You are certain that you are right, but obviously, to be so stubborn, he also is certain that he is right.

We're working on a mix, first time we attempt to do a mix with that much amount of work into it (quad tracks, 2 mic per tracks, reamping, etc.).

For some reason, the friend I am working with seems allergic to low end. Everytime he touches the mix he just completely removes the low end. And then, when we compare to a reference mix, it's terribly obvious our sound is ultra thin and boring. So I try to adjust it after him and then send him back, to see what he thinks. And he always comments "Hum I think there is too much bass".

Sometimes I wonder if that is because he's a lot into punk music, as well as metal... perhaps they tend to be very dry and not boomy at all in their mix? But he very much like Andy Sneap mixes, and therefore, I don't get why he doesn't hear the significant difference.

Don't get me wrong I don't like boomy mixes... but to remove all of it like it's the plague... Jesus...

Have you ever had that kind of headache?

 

[Keregioz]

Why don't you pick a reference mix you can both agree on and base your mix on that?
Also, based on your post, it seems that you are listening through different sound setups, so maybe you're not hearing the same thing?

In my own band, I have final say on everything regarding the music and mix, so I haven't had any serious problems. I would occasionally have a headache when I'd try to compromise and include someone else's ideas to please them and make them feel included. But in the end if I feel it's not working I just do my own thing, I put the music before everyone else's feelings.

Generally speaking, I think there should be someone who makes the final decisions in a band. Full democracy rarely works if you want to do something serious.

 

[H-evolve]

Why don't you pick a reference mix you can both agree on and base your mix on that?
Also, based on your post, it seems that you are listening through different sound setups, so maybe you're not hearing the same thing?

In my own band, I have final say on everything regarding the music and mix, so I haven't had any serious problems. I would occasionally have a headache when I'd try to compromise and include someone else's ideas to please them and make them feel included. But in the end if I feel it's not working I just do my own thing, I put the music before everyone else's feelings.

Generally speaking, I think there should be someone who makes the final decisions in a band. Full democracy rarely works if you want to do something serious.

Regarding your suggestion of a reference mix, that is actually part of the issue. On multiple occasions I told him to use a mix I know we both like. However, I know he does not compare to said reference mix. As a matter of fact, I know he doesn't compare to anything. He'll turst his ears. In itself it isn't a bad thing, if we'd have 20 years of mixing experience! But that is obviously not the case...

From my experience, it is easy to "over-focus" on a certain sound and have a false impression that it is too loud or something. Which is why I think it is imperative to use a reference mix.

But ya... I agree 100% with your last statement. For now, we were limiting the decision making to the 2 of us, but, it doesn't always work so well.

 

[newamerikangospel]

Pick your battle. If you are both not willing to change, then your project is locked. I don't understand what level of involvement you have in this (writing, arrangement, etc) but is it worth it to not let anyone hear the music, or let people hear it with a subpar mix.

Also, What if his mix is better and you aren't able to tell? Maybe pick a few people you both will listen to, and let them critique the mix.

Anytime I get into a sticking point with anything (music, work, etc) I assume I am wrong and then try to logic my way out of it, instead of defending my position. The change of perspective and argument lets me make sure I am not wrong, and generally provides insight into the other person's viewpoint. I never want to be the reason something doesn't move forward.

 

[AD Chaos]

Could be that his monitors aren't decoupled

 

[H-evolve]

Pick your battle. If you are both not willing to change, then your project is locked. I don't understand what level of involvement you have in this (writing, arrangement, etc) but is it worth it to not let anyone hear the music, or let people hear it with a subpar mix.

Also, What if his mix is better and you aren't able to tell? Maybe pick a few people you both will listen to, and let them critique the mix.

Anytime I get into a sticking point with anything (music, work, etc) I assume I am wrong and then try to logic my way out of it, instead of defending my position. The change of perspective and argument lets me make sure I am not wrong, and generally provides insight into the other person's viewpoint. I never want to be the reason something doesn't move forward.

I am definitely not the kind to think that I'm right by default. And, I don't quite agree with the principle of always assuming you are wrong. I think sometimes you are wrong, sometimes right, it's all a question of being opened to both possibilities. That being said, there are occasions where it's more obvious you were wrong, sometimes more obvious that you were right. And on some other occasions, it's highly subjective and therefore, nobody is wrong or right.

Anyway...

As for this project, I'm writing most of the music and recording most of it also..There are multiple reasons behind that, but in short I probably write and record 65% of the stuff. The mixing part, so far, is done 50-50.

When it comes to writing music, we work well together. I have the ideas for the main structure and he has some good ideas for harmonies. But for mixing, I think we don't work well together. And, I think we don't aim for the same sound... But that is the part I don't understand. We should be aiming for the same thing, we like the same albums! Weird right?

 

[Korwent]

Have you listened to it in the same listening environment?
It might be because of the room/speakers difference!

If not, it seems quite obvious to me you should delegate the mix in such a situation, or at least ask for external points of view!
You most likely are both too emotionaly involved in the process of the releasing of the album, and a little bit of fresh perspective could be quite beneficial!

And that doesn't mean you are wrong, just that having someone else do the mixing could release the tension!

 

[H-evolve]

Have you listened to it in the same listening environment?
It might be because of the room/speakers difference!

If not, it seems quite obvious to me you should delegate the mix in such a situation, or at least ask for external points of view!
You most likely are both too emotionaly involved in the process of the releasing of the album, and a little bit of fresh perspective could be quite beneficial!

And that doesn't mean you are wrong, just that having someone else do the mixing could release the tension!

No you are right. I think I didn't clearly mentioning it, but this homemade demo is to recruit missing band member. In the past we had that discussion about, when we'd be ready for our first album, would we try to do "some of it" on ourselves. Going through this process now, I got my answer. Hell no. We'll hire someone to do it for sure. At least that is how see it