The Great American Gun Fetish

[CiG]

I see you're still mumbling about immigrants ruining countries, son. Don't you know that bigotry is a sign that intelligence is severely lacking?

Okay, captain argumentum ad hominem.

 

[UltimateApathy]

And just so you know, kid, I officially have residential status in the country I live in.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

 

[CiG]

And just so you know, son, argumentum ad hominem is a fallacy.

 

[UltimateApathy]

You mean just like your little fallacy-based belief that immigrants ruin countries, son?

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, you fucking retard. Stop pushing your black-and-white leftist propaganda.

 

[CiG]

You mean just like your little fallacy-based belief that immigrants ruin countries, son?

You're right, Northern Europe is simply flowering right now. No negative effects related to mass immigration whatsoever.

Must by why Japan is just opening its borders to everybody, right?

 

[UltimateApathy]

Japan is the only country in the world where people speak Japanese, and due to the language barrier (the English aptitude of Japanese people is one of the worst in the world) people basically can't live there unless they speak the language or teach English. Foreign teachers can marry locals and become citizens, but because of Japan's ultra-conservative culture this is relatively rare. It's not so much that Japan won't let foreign people in, it's mainly that foreign people can't easily live there and therefore don't want to.

And where is your evidence of Northern Europe descending into utter chaos other than a few anecdotal stories and very sparsely scattered news reports? You are touting a fear-mongering bigoted fallacy here, kid.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Japan is the only country in the world where people speak Japanese, and due to the language barrier (the English aptitude of Japanese people is one of the worst in the world) people basically can't live there unless they speak the language or teach English. Foreign teachers can marry locals and become citizens, but because of Japan's ultra-conservative culture this is relatively rare. It's not so much that Japan won't let foreign people in, it's mainly that foreign people can't easily live there and therefore don't want to.

Sounds like an awesome place. Others should follow suit.

 

[CF87]

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Where did I say anything about crime? I said strict immigration policy means you can avoid bringing in people who potentially have no respect for the culture, of course Singapore is a bad example for me as it's quite different to most Asian nations.

Though it is definitely a place that is safe, but personal freedom takes a hit for that safety. That's definitely a typical Asian state characteristic.

See:

It's true fucktard, why do you think illegal firearms aren't everywhere in those places? Nobody is able to smuggle them in and those places aren't overpopulated with people.
People who have no respect for the cultural practices.

Jesus, use your brain for a few seconds.

So you were talking about the crime of smuggling, but illegal immigration doesn't apply to any other kind of crime?

 

[CiG]

Strong borders = tight control over who brings what in. That's all I was saying.

 

[UltimateApathy]

You also said that immigrants (note: not illegal immigrants, just regular legal immigrants) ruin countries. Hell, the USA was fucking built by immigrants, and it's currently the most powerful country in the world (although admittedly it probably won't stay that way if the Orange Clown stays in power for long).

 

[CiG]

I didn't say that immigrants ruin countries. I said that countries with strict immigration policy (and in hindsight, also countries with strict asylum-seeker and refugee intake policy) seem to think they do, in some way, bring more cons than pros.

If they didn't think this, why wouldn't they Angela Merkelize their borders? I'm not a close the borders person at all, I'm basically perfectly happy with the balance struck by Australian policy. I just think it's funny that all these places you hold up as the best places seem to have very strict immigration policy and are also quite conservative, with exception to Singapore of course.

Japan has a less than 1% rate of taking in asylum seekers, whereas Germany is upward of 40%. Why is this?

 

[UltimateApathy]

CASSETTEISGOD said: ↑

strict immigration policy is one of the main reasons your precious Asian utopias are the way they are to begin with.

Those were your exact words, son, so I guess you admit that you either misspoke or were mistaken.

 

[CiG]

Asian governments seek to strictly control migration, and migrants' rights are often very limited. Policymakers encourage temporary labor migration but generally prohibit family reunion and permanent settlement. While most migration in the region is temporary, trends toward long-term stay are becoming evident in some places.

Another form of female migration is for marriage. Since the 1990s, foreign brides have been sought by farmers in rural areas of Japan and Taiwan due to the exodus of local women to more attractive urban settings. This is one of the few forms of permanent immigration permitted in Asia.

The growth of illegal migration in Asia is linked to governments' unwillingness to effectively manage migration and to employers' desire for easily available and exploitable workers. Spontaneous illegal migration can meet labor needs effectively, but it creates a situation of insecurity and rightlessness for workers.

Malaysia is a good example: mass expulsions have been announced on a number of occasions, particularly during the 1997-1999 financial crisis and more recently in response to the global recession. Irregular migrants have been blamed not only for unemployment but also for crime and disease. Vigilante groups have been encouraged to support the authorities in seeking out irregular migrants, leading in some cases to violence.

Recently, Asian governments' desire to combat drug trafficking and terrorism have led to attempts at multilateral cooperation to prevent illegal migration. For instance, the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) has adopted a Plan of Action on Immigration Matters designed to encourage skilled migration, facilitate legal movement between ASEAN countries, and combat people smuggling and trafficking.

Asian migration has become much more complex, yet some general features remain. One is the lack of long-term planning: movements have been shaped not only by government labor policies, but also by the actions of employers, migrants, and the migration industry.

Second, illegal migration is very high, and agents and brokers play a major role.

Third, the weakness of migration management in some countries contrasts with the dominant Asian model of migration: strict control of foreign workers, prohibition of settlement and family reunification, and denial of worker rights.

Finally, East Asian authorities emphasize the importance of maintaining ethnic homogeneity, while Southeast Asian governments wish to safeguard existing ethnic balances. But the globalization of migration is bringing about rapid changes, and it is far from clear that Asian governments will be able to prevent unforeseen shifts.

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/migration-asia-pacific-region

As Asia trends towards liberal democracy, they'll open their borders more and more for people who aren't just impermanent foreign workers, but denying that many Asian countries are conservative when it comes to immigration seems ridiculous to me.

Conservative fundamentally means to conserve something and it's quite clear these places for the time being aim to conserve something which they think immigration (especially non-Asian immigration) will negatively impact.

 

[UltimateApathy]

So you're still sticking to your statement that immigrants ruin countries?

 

[CiG]

So you still have nothing to actually rebut anything I've said? Vapid twat.

 

[UltimateApathy]

You still haven't explained to me how you can hold to your belief that immigrants ruin countries when the most powerful country in the world was built by immigrants. Your mindless retardation has me in two minds, son: I'm not sure whether to pity you or laugh at you.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]