The guitar player vs. the amp

[Genius Gone Insane]

So there's been a lot of discussion about getting a solid guitar sound lately, and most of it has been regarding the amps, cabs, effects, mic placement, as well as a lot of POD bashing (even though DIABOLIC5150 somehow got a great tone from it), tube screamers, doubling, etc.

A few times Andy has noticeably gone out of his way to point out how important the player is. I have not had the experience of recording anyone who is really great at guitar so I'm kind of curious what the difference between the way I play an Arch Enemy lick and the way the Amott brothers do it.

I guess my question is what kinds of things should an amateur guitarist look out for when recording? I'm still struggling to get the guitar tone I want and I'm wondering if maybe i should be picking harder or softer, closer to the bridge, etc.

Do you guys have to tell your guitarists, "OK, you're tight, but try playing softer to get the scratchiness out?" I doubt you'd say something like that, but you know I'm just trying to find out what I can do to get a better sound out of my hands. Any help would be hot...

By the way, for some stupid, ludicrous, unacceptable reason, I'm in love with "Devil Dance" on M--------'s Reload album right now. I hate that fucking band with my life and I want to firebomb them for some of the shit they've said and done the past few years, but that song is totally rad, especially the way it's recorded. Don't hate me, please.

 

[Cooperman]

In my opinion there are a couple of small things that go a long way to making a player sound great. The first is unwanted noise. Whether it be the noise of your fingers sliding up and down the strings or a string buzzing accidently, if you can get the unwanted noise down it will always sound half decent.

Decent vibrato will also make a huge amount of difference. It doesn't have to be super wide vibrato say like Zakk Wylde (although he does have just about the best vibrato around - especially on his pinch harmonics). It just needs to be smooth and so it doesn't sound like a bee.

The other main thing is the guitarists ability to double tracks accurately. This is not just a timing issue but also a feel issue which is hard to explain in words. But for me, the feel is all in the picking hand. How you mute, whether you're playing on, in front or behind the beat... that kinda thing.

 

[Andy Sneap]

You've hit the nail on the head here. I really would go as far as saying 70% of a great players tone is in his hands. I know thats a real cliche but the more I do this job, the more I KNOW its true.

I actually spend alot of time when tracking telling guitarists to play closer to the bridge, watch out for the squeak between that B and D chord etc.

I can guarantee if you played through Eric Petersons rig you'd be like "wheres the gain?" because he really digs into the strings to get the attack and response.

Alot of kids nowaday are buying high gain amps and hiding behind the distortion, thats what I like about Marshalls (800s), you can't do it. If you sound great through one of those, you've got you're playing down. Then you've got to start practicing throwing shapes.

Coopermans right about vibrato also, it kills me to hear really fast vibrato, it sounds so unconfident.

 

[SickBoy]

I actually spend alot of time when tracking telling guitarists to play closer to the bridge, watch out for the squeak between that B and D chord etc.

I made maybe 4-5 CD recordings in my home "studio" (I'll remove the quotation marks once I get rid of SB Live! ) so I'm not some reference, but this was indeed one of the biggest problem for guitarists and bass players.
Not to mention the usual wars with metronome...

I can guarantee if you played through Eric Petersons rig you'd be like "wheres the gain?" because he really digs into the strings to get the attack and response.

I like that approach, if only I could find a place to crank my 2203 Marshall...

Coopermans right about vibrato also, it kills me to hear really fast vibrato, it sounds so unconfident.

Yeah, I hate it too.
Did anyone notice how there are plenty players who seem to concentrate on speed and the speed alone, like the Chinese guy who plays in Dragonforce?
Those guys have either that "buzzy bee" vibrato or no vibrato at all...
They seem to function digitally (on/off ) and this guy is a perfect example, he's all I hate in a guitarist! Yes, he's fast (big deal...), but he can't play a decent melody to save his life...

 

[2dark]

I don't know if it's the same with you guys, but as older I get and as longer
I play guitar, my learning curve goes down.
Just like loosing weight. the first pounds are easy but then it gets tough. But
guitar playing is way more fun ....

Since I give guitar lessons from time to time, I have to remind myself
of the basics again and while that, I learn a lot about my own playing and I find
stuff that I have to improve.
Even if think you suck at teaching like I do, my patience level is really low here, I still
recomend that.

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

Its practise as much as anything. Playing in a studio is a seperate discipline to playing live etc

Miezcko from Nasum even watches the guitar players hands as he lays down tracks, he can tell something is wrong from watching even if he can't hear it for example.

just from doing my little bedroom recordings I've got a lot better and more disciplined at laying down tracks. Sometimes its just a question of doing it over and over again until you get it absolutely spot on.

 

[SickBoy]

just from doing my little bedroom recordings I've got a lot better and more disciplined at laying down tracks. Sometimes its just a question of doing it over and over again until you get it absolutely spot on.

That is soooo true!
I never had any problems with playing in time, but my daily bedroom recording locked me onto metronome very good, I'm even more confident in rhythm than ever before...

 

[Hopkins-WitchfinderGeneral]

As with most things musical, theres no substitute for honest and decent hard work.

 

[SickBoy]

As with most things musical, theres no substitute for honest and decent hard work.

Hear, hear!

 

[Nostalgiaplatz]

This is quite an interesting topic! Thank you genius gone insane, it seriously makes me look back into my playing!

I wrote a track, actually my first (not really, but the one I made which took me a whole lot of work to get done cuz I had to make everything -- drums, bass, guitars (3) and keys (2)) big track. I picked a few riffs I invented last summer and I never got them anywhere and they fit quite well, but the thing is: the whole song is at 190bpm - a bit harder to get things done with some feeling of confidence instead of joining forces toward getting it at the right speed/tempo. So, the other day I launched cubase and thought "I'm going to record this", I was quite confident with all the riffs, I played them blindly since they were a bit dated and quite rehearsed, eventhough a bit hard to play (not too much though, just the pull offs was making it harder and the tempo at which the song was). So, I started cubase, loaded up the midi and started trying to record the first riff -- an accoustic intro followed by several distorted leads/rhythms. I started with the accoustic riff, but... after a while, trying to get it tempo-right, just so I would record only the first 2 bars (which were different) then copy/paste them to the next 2 bars and it was done for the accoustic. Sadly enough, all I could get was a very flat, very noisy (strings/picking related) song. I even tried passing it thru several FX plugins to see how I could mask it into something more pleasant, but no luck.

So, I decided I would keep it that way and go on to the preceeding riffs/leads, which were a bit harder due to having to slide from a string to another (this is quite a weird explanation but I hope you get it) a few times. It went well, but after compression and getting the song at an audible volume level, I found a lot of noises (picking, slides, weird distortion... well I dunno) I thought it was due to my equipment, but despite it being poor-to--medium quality I know for sure it's a problem of mine. I've never had guitar lessons, I know the chords arm (in my case, the left one) should hold the guitar with the thumb sitting in the center of the neck, but It's not easy for me to play that way, mainly because I'm big and have big hands and I've not learned it from ground up, changing my habits a bit painful. I tried already! Another thing I dislike and can't get to talk with well is the metronome. I don't speak morse code nor do I understand the beeps he says, but he sounds a bit nervous at times.

Now after reading this thread and when I arrive back in lisbon, I will look back into may playing and try to play things right at a slower tempo and going up progressively til I get confident and have better results in the recordings. Anyways, I would love to read more tips regarding this topic. It's really something I should look forward

Bye and thanks

 

[SickBoy]

I started with the accoustic riff, but... after a while, trying to get it tempo-right, just so I would record only the first 2 bars (which were different) then copy/paste them to the next 2 bars and it was done for the accoustic. Sadly enough, all I could get was a very flat, very noisy (strings/picking related) song. I even tried passing it thru several FX plugins to see how I could mask it into something more pleasant, but no luck.

IMO, the ability to play with very little unwanted noises is one of the guitarist's most important features! It's a whole little science by itself, so to say, you've got to stop and think about it a little...
When I got myself a computer 2 and a half years ago and started working in Cubase, I discovered and applied various techniques (makes it sound so smart, doesn't it? )for avoiding the unnecesary noise. Also, it makes the rhythm sound sooo much tighter, especially if there are stop-go-stop-go moments, if you know what I mean...
Anyway, the thing you should look for is what string/s rings when it/they shouldn't and what can you do to prevent it (change of picking hand placement in order to dampen it/them or slight adjustment of fretting hand's fingers in order to slightly touch the unused string/s, again to dampen it/them). When you find the cause of the noise, simply implement the "dampening" procedures in your playing and in time you'll use them in a normal playing flow, as a part of your playing...

 

[Andy Sneap]

Alot of the time, I'll end up taping up strings that arent getting played, dampening springs on a trem, the old hairband around the headstock, every little bit helps.

 

[Nostalgiaplatz]

Oh, thank you for the valuable information, will start testing these tips at home

 

[sorceron]

This is an interesting thread, ive been thinking about these things alot lately as well.

One of the most important things to remember is to practice sloooow, i dont care if your tremolo picking at 220, practice it at 120 and with great accuracy, 5 times slow for everytime fast. After practicing something perfectly at such a slow speed your muscle memory will take care of the rest when you speed it up. Seriously though, a classical pianist told me this and i thought it was BS until I tried it for a week and even in that small time period it did alot for my playing, especially the super fast stuff.

Some things i do in the studio to get cleaner takes are the headband on the headstock, dampen the springs of the tremolo with tissue or whatever you got, and as far as people recording demos/writing in home studios, if your poor like me and dont have a flat panel, turn that thing off after you hit record.

 

[sorceron]

sorry, i just realized that was a year old. hah. guess whos bored.

 

[Skyweaver]

I've played for around 20 years now and meet quite a few different guitarists and styles, whats always interested me is how the guitarist will have an approach to playing the instrument.

Men that Monster the guitar and achieve the "Monstering" tone

Zakk
Yngwie
Ritchie Blackmore

These guys practically beat the strings into the tone they get..


Softer - smooth gliding fingers over the fretts.

Brett Garsed
Frank Gamble
Steve Vai (on occasion)

Watch the players you like and see how "percussive" they are when playing the instrutment - is the left hand "heavy" or "light" the same with the right hand.

Its also interesting to watch a guitar player who has a completely different style pick anothers axe and your really notice where the tone is coming from.

 

[Nitronium Blood]

sorry, i just realized that was a year old. hah. guess whos bored.

Idiot.

 

[Nitronium Blood]

In discussing the Player Vs The Gear, I have come to realise that this is why robots will never be successful guitar legends.

Or will they?

 

[Nitronium Blood]

In my opinion there are a couple of small things that go a long way to making a player sound great. The first is unwanted noise. Whether it be the noise of your fingers sliding up and down the strings or a string buzzing accidently, if you can get the unwanted noise down it will always sound half decent.

Decent vibrato will also make a huge amount of difference. It doesn't have to be super wide vibrato say like Zakk Wylde (although he does have just about the best vibrato around - especially on his pinch harmonics). It just needs to be smooth and so it doesn't sound like a bee.

The other main thing is the guitarists ability to double tracks accurately. This is not just a timing issue but also a feel issue which is hard to explain in words. But for me, the feel is all in the picking hand. How you mute, whether you're playing on, in front or behind the beat... that kinda thing.

The other main thing is whether or not you have a chick in your band.

-If the chick is sexy and you are staring at her arse all the time, then you may not have enough focus on your instrument, but on the 'other' instrument. Your vibratos on the former instrument will decrease and on the latter instrument it will increase.

-If the chick is a fat red-head who believes she is Dave Mustaine re-incarnate, (given the fact that Dave is not dead yet) then it depends. If you like fat red-head chicks then your experience will be similar to the initial point that I just made. If you don't like fat chicks, then again you may be distracted by how pissed off you are that she is in the band, and making you want to kill yourself will not enable one to double track or properly engage in a vibrato wanking session. If you are indifferent, then you will not be able to do anything except be a complete wanker wearing a cheesy uncle-sam hat and move to the USA.

 

[egan.]

One of the most important things to remember is to practice sloooow, i dont care if your tremolo picking at 220, practice it at 120 and with great accuracy, 5 times slow for everytime fast.

Absolutely....same thing w/ drummers.....If something sounds slopply slow, but "clean" fast 90% of the time it's just the speed hiding the flaws. If your straight 16th notes sound uneven slow, they are more than likely just as uneven (but less noticeable) fast.