The million dollar question...

[Arsenu,]

so... how much do you charge?

Well, iv'e been around this forum for quiet a while and there's one subject i can't recall to have ever encountered here, and that is 'how do you present yourself to a client'.

I'm sure at least some of you know that one awesome AE who never gets any clients and at least one of his rivals, the shitty/douchbag AE who always gets more work somehow...

Well, one good way to never-ever get any work is to present yourself poorly to a client and behave unprofessionally. Answering above question with the likes of "hmm....well... how much are you willing to pay?" will certainly keep you flipping burgers for longer than you should

I suppose anyone who's been doing this shit for more than a day obviously knows that your prices and the amount of work that awaits you totally depends on many variables such as number of songs, style, time-frame etc' so you can't really give a straight answer such as "one song is 200$, 500$ if you can't fucking play or sing, 1000$ if you suck at both" :Smokin:

Since i'm new to the trade and just started collecting clients i always have to think pretty hard before i answer a project/price related question, and i can definitely tell if my answer to that question have gotten me closer to a new project, of sent him to another studio...

so what i'm asking, and this is aimed more at the experienced AEs here, is how do YOU do it? and what tips and tricks are you willing to share with the rest of us?

 

[Sloan]

NOT ENOUGH.

I charge a very, very low flat rate for a full 8 hours. Price also includes unmastered mixes as well as 'mastered' mixes (typically fg-x). Even my dirt fucking cheap prices get disgusting responses from the typical clientele in my area, but the artists that have recording experience seem to like me after they've been burned by some other places.

With that said, I am bumping up my rate as it really helps to filter out crap you don't want. I bust my ass with this shit and so I've gotta charge something that makes it worth taking a day off work or not having a weekend to pursue other interests/work.

Rate is also variable if you are talking to an artist you really WANT to work with.

 

[AKoppenheffer]

NOT ENOUGH.

Rate is also variable if you are talking to an artist you really WANT to work with.

Agreed.

I charge 300 bucks a track. $35/hourly. Some take little time, some feel like you're dragging and just spinning your wheels. I do this for fun on the nights and weekends. Just about every band has come back for more.

 

[ArthurD]

Depends on the artist.
I always check the band playing live (and rehersal) to see how tight they play.
Then I think how much I would charge depending on the work I would have.
For great musicians it will be cheaper.
For crappy musicians it will be expensive.
Also I have a 20 page contract that they should sign to work with me, witch includes some things like:
New strings, new drum heads, etc. Otherwise they will pay for the time I had to wait them to get these itens to start recording.
If they can't play with the metronome I will send they home to practice.
Also, I don't FIX ON THE MIX. LET'S RECORD RIGHT.

 

[aortizjr]

NOT ENOUGH is right!

My published rate is $40/hr, $350 for a 10 hour day.

Other two studios in town, are $130 an hour, and $70 an hour for locals. That is really what it takes to make a living and support a business (rent, utilities, decent pay for you, repairs, maintenance, etc.), honestly. Add to the non-regularity of work, you make about the same as a car mechanic. So I think they hate me. But the market for Metal just can't bare that here. Plus from working in big cities before, yeah some BIG studios are doing like $15 to $25 an hour.

But it doesn't take much for me to be booked out months in advance which bands don't like, so they go somewhere else or wait.

Now days the bands I have been recording are friends, or bands I like, so I cut deals for them. Like I will discount the rate directly, especially if it is a long project (ie. full album). Or I will roll drum editing that I do during the week into the days, so it becomes the day rate for 12-16 hours. Maybe do setup for free (setup guitars, tuning drums, micing drums, etc.) like the night before (which I try to do anyway, makes the sessions go A LOT smoother).

My suggestion, NEVER work for flat rates. I know all bands want a song rate or something. But you have to explain that to them. I had a band knock out 14 songs in two days live with overdubs. A "day" or 10 hour block of mixing and it sounds great! And I traded artwork for some of the hours, but even at $100 a song, they would have gotten screwed. At the same time, I had one band do one song and it cost them nearly $1400.

The other suggestion is being brave enough to track them all together live to work in their budget. Recordings can be a bit loose and the band will be happy. No click is fine for many bands. Part of that too is workflow, workflow, workflow. Work in their budget and be creative and push them to finish in their budget.

The crazy thing is that even at say $15 an hour (super duper bro hookup and great music) the hours add up quick. Way more money than I ever made doing flat song rates. And hell, my housekeeper (paid for by my day job BTW), charges more than that!!! Anyone can clean their fucking house.

Bands are willing to pay it!! And you can work less and you get higher quality bands. Sure dudes can do it at home now, and let them. Be involved in the local scene, do good work, and people will work with you. I play in my own band, go to shows, promote shows, drink a lot, throw parties at the studio, and I am booked about 4 months out, and starting to push 6 months. I can't live off of it yet, but I am having a blast, making music, recouping my costs... which is why I do it.

 

[Arsenu,]

Well, the point was more about HOW you present yourself to a client rather than how much you charge, but if we went down the road i might as well ask what's so wrong with working for a flat-rate? i mean yes, i see your point (aortizjr) that you will probably make less money but all in all i don't think you can get as good results being constantly stressed by time or having the band work under pressure as you can get working on a flat-rate without any stress.
Of course it depends a lot on your studio and your expenses, in my case i only pay 300 euro a month including electricity and all the other shit so other than the normal studio GAS which is probably always going to be there, i can take my time. but i suppose it's not very common to work in such a cosy environment... anyway i've derailed...

The point was that if you work for a flat-rate you can get everything to sound perfect and get a better end product as opposed to working with an hourly rate that would really constrict you creative-wise.
So on one side working with an hourly rate with likely get you more money, but if the end product is better you're most likely to get a name for yourself faster and get bands to want to work with you which ultimately translates into more money again.
to prove my point, why are we all even writing here on this forum? because of how RICH Andy became or because of his constant head-smashing end-products?

which leads me to think that i don't really understand why you wouldn't want to work more. I mean, aren't we all in this business because we like it and we want to produce the best of whatever we are working on? you're not cleaning people fucking houses here, you're doing something that you're supposed to love. am i alone on this one?

 

[crillemannen]

I charge 360$/day and that is 8hours. And if im fully booked then i can take out a salary around 2300$/month which isn't bad but for sure isn't good. I have another work which covers the bills every month but for the first time im taking 3months off next year because im fully booked in the studio Hard work for sure but i hope it pays off in the in end !!!

 

[mairomaster]

^Wow, where is the rest of the money going mate? With that rate it adds up to 7200$ a month, if you do 20 days a month and it's usually more I suppose. I guess you have some expenses and you pay taxes, but is it really that much?

 

[Arsenu,]

^ +1
yeah i was also wondering about that... 320$ a month in my case would mean that i can work 3 days a month and survive, let alone 20-30 days...

 

[AboutBlank]

Sweden, u know?!^^

 

[crillemannen]

About the taxes guys...

It is that freakin bad haha. I don't have that much expenses when it comes to studio outcomes (rent etc) That is about 400$/month. And you need to pay about 50% in taxes on your salary, social contribution and pension etc. And on top of that the sale tax is 20% in Sweden so you actually almost pay 70$ on every 100$ you earn.

It is a price worth to pay for social healthfair etc but i wish the un-taxed income per year would be a bit higher which would make it so much easier to run a small company like mine

 

[aortizjr]

which leads me to think that i don't really understand why you wouldn't want to work more. I mean, aren't we all in this business because we like it and we want to produce the best of whatever we are working on? you're not cleaning people fucking houses here, you're doing something that you're supposed to love. am i alone on this one?

I do see your point, but what is funny is that after raising my rates and getting off flat rates, I am the busiest I have ever been by FAR. And you should get paid what your time is worth, even if you love it. It also makes it much more enjoyable for me since I can bounce more projects and manage my time better since it is time just booked and I work. Versus flat rates I was living a project from beginning to end. Bands are also happier since they have more control on the progress of their project and get direct feedback on my available time.

Based on my description I am obviously still cutting ridiculous deals and I will often put a lot of extra time into a mix off the clock or rolled into a day rate. Why? Because I do love it and want to put out a product the band and myself are happy with. And the bands see that and appreciate it more.

It is a balance though of what the cause is of the extra time... did I fuck up the tracking making me work harder to fix something? Maybe experimenting with a new plug or technique? Or maybe round 1 I was having a bad day? Or is the band sucking requiring extra editing? Or the band being waaay to picky or having too high of expectations?

But flat rates are a dangerous trap, what if the band is never happy? Or what if YOU are never happy? And the mix rolls on for months, pissing off everyone? Or you quoted $100 for a mix, that in the details you spend 100 hours on... then the awkwardness of asking for more money. The "pressure" really isn't that bad and I believe you can overthink and overwork a mix. Day rates are great for that, you quote (for instance), it is going to take a day to do the initial mix, a day for revisions. Then you put in the extra time if necessary, essentially flattening out your rate a bit but it relieves the pressure.

Most bands are willing to pay too, especially for good work with good turnaround. They just like shopping for a deal and often not entirely realizing they are running someone over. Getting run over is fine for the first 5-10 projects, but for the long haul, it gets shitty quick. But I started that way too, don't recommend it, but maybe that is the best way without school and interning.

My mixes aren't the best either, there are guys on this forum that put me to shame and probably in their sleep. I am not sure putting more hours into my mixes will help that much. But that is only a part of the total package. Work ethic, integrity, workflow, board side manner, etc. are often even more important when providing a service to other bands with deadlines, etc.

 

[viralz]

I charge 15$/h in my untreated bedroom using cracked plugins.

 

[B36arin]

About the taxes guys...

It is that freakin bad haha. I don't have that much expenses when it comes to studio outcomes (rent etc) That is about 400$/month. And you need to pay about 50% in taxes on your salary, social contribution and pension etc. And on top of that the sale tax is 20% in Sweden so you actually almost pay 70$ on every 100$ you earn.

It is a price worth to pay for social healthfair etc but i wish the un-taxed income per year would be a bit higher which would make it so much easier to run a small company like mine

By sales tax, do you mean moms/vat? I always charge a fixed rate + vat, since pretty much all my clients have companies or are going through the local label here, which ensures that they get the moms/VAT back. If they're not doing that it's their problem and not yours!

 

[LiberaScientia]

I charge 15$/h in my untreated bedroom using cracked plugins.

10/10

 

[Trevoire520]

EP I'm just finishing up was £1000 for 5 days in the studio recording 4 songs. Half of that went to the studio and half to me. Hoping I can maintain that price as honestly metal stuff is far too much hard work to do it for any less imo.

 

[Arsenu,]

About the taxes guys...

It is that freakin bad haha. I don't have that much expenses when it comes to studio outcomes (rent etc) That is about 400$/month. And you need to pay about 50% in taxes on your salary, social contribution and pension etc. And on top of that the sale tax is 20% in Sweden so you actually almost pay 70$ on every 100$ you earn.

It is a price worth to pay for social healthfair etc but i wish the un-taxed income per year would be a bit higher which would make it so much easier to run a small company like mine

Swedish women :hotjump:

 

[Line666]

EP I'm just finishing up was £1000 for 5 days in the studio recording 4 songs. Half of that went to the studio and half to me. Hoping I can maintain that price as honestly metal stuff is far too much hard work to do it for any less imo.

Not seen anybody in Scotland that does anything even approximating half decent for less - especially metal. Thats about what I'm charging at the moment as well.

 

[egan.]

About the taxes guys...

It is that freakin bad haha. I don't have that much expenses when it comes to studio outcomes (rent etc) That is about 400$/month. And you need to pay about 50% in taxes on your salary, social contribution and pension etc. And on top of that the sale tax is 20% in Sweden so you actually almost pay 70$ on every 100$ you earn.

It is a price worth to pay for social healthfair etc but i wish the un-taxed income per year would be a bit higher which would make it so much easier to run a small company like mine

If most of the US guys in here were paying all of the applicable taxes (federal (10-35%), state (0-11%), local (?), sales (0-12%), and self-employment (15%)) they'd be looking at some serious expense. It's just that lots of guys keep lots of their work under the table.

 

[tgs]

Swedish women :hotjump:

Well, the grass is always greener on the other side.

About the VAT (sales tax) issue, it's indeed deductible by the client and when selling the service cross borders there's a reverse tax that voids it (when giving quotes to clients I never include the VAT either).

The "problem" comes when you deal with a client who is not registered for VAT, where you're prices are suddenly 25% higher. Nothing weird about that, but if you want to do your business by the books and a competitor doesn't, you'll have problems trying to compete with that. But that goes only for a certain type of client (a band that wants to record a demo or something) but I personally never really deal with anything like that anymore. Just mentioning it for reference and I know lots of other are in that kind of situation, not only in the music business.