The Return of the "How it Happened" post...PP USA XI

[Wyvern]

Heres a hypothetical situation:



Two shows:



A. Blind Guardian, Pain of Salvation, Sabaton, Riverside.

B. Fates Warning (or sub any non DT related pure prog band), Gamma Ray, Vanden Plas, Brainstorm

Sorry to disrupt the discussion but this was to tempting not to answer to. A, at least 50% of the show appeals me deeply, while the other is 0% (unless the not DT related pure prog band is The Flower Kings in which case I pick them and skip the other three bands ).

 

[nomisofsiman]

True, but DT barely made the 80s and more were in the 90s. Not to mention they have beening peaking whereas one can say Maiden helped lift their genre to new heights around the World Slavery Tour. I only suggested DT may be in a similar position now, but in a much smaller scale.

In reading my post I definitely did not say they launched anyone. Did I? I said, "They sure are in position to try and keep things rolling" and "[in position to] also catapult their genre and some other bands." Perhaps the sentence did read not well. Sorry about that. In position was the key comment there so perhaps this clarifies it.

I only contest and wonder (I'm not saying it WILL happen, merely posing the question that it may) that it can take one band to blaze a bigger trail for the genre. I parallel to what Nirvana did for grunge by putting the genre in the minds and homes of more people (though again I wonder if this could happen anywhere near the same scale in today's widely dispersed music scene with all the sub-genres and different media for exposing bands than just radio/TV). Sure there were other "grunge" bands around, but it took Nirvana to put the genre over the hump. I saw Pearl Jam, Chili Peppers, and Smashing Pumpkins in college in a room of maybe 700 people. Within the next year Nirvana got things noticed beyond just the small in the know scene.

Part of my opinion is also based upon the Portnoy forum. There are plentity of bands that his forum helps get more attention. Again, as part of the original thread discussion of prog vs. power, I just think that DT is in position to bring the prog metal genre to more masses and grow it beyond the populatity of power metal in today's world (not over the history of time).

I think 3 could've been launched, but they didn't really try to use prog nation to propel themselves, so I don't think it will happen as there has been too much time removed. Bigelf I think got a lot of fans, but they also are an oddball and won't appeal to a number of pure prog fans. It's unfortunate because had Pain of Salvation and Beardfish been on the tour as they were initially, they could've gained many more fans. Unfrotunately though, this did not happen.

Ditto on DT. They were not an 80s band. Their first album isn't even that good and WAY different. While they had a hit with "Pull Me Under" they were in corporate hell with labels throughout the 90s and wasn't until Six Degrees... until they started to gain clout.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Because power metal bands can headline in the U.S.?

Iced Earth, Helloween/Gamma Ray, Sonata Arctica, Dragonforce.

Yeah but those bands don't do all that great let's be honest. They play clubs. Of those, only Dragonforce is getting bigger places. Helloween I know has cancelled tours due to low ticket sales. Iced Earth if Barlow wasn't still a cop I think could break through. Prog Nation plays good sized theaters. Big difference.

 

[Metal_King]

So, I had five power metal bands. Was I through with the power? No. I’m selling this show out this year. However, with that said, I knew it would be better if I could appeal to a slightly different genre. I started looking towards some heavier stuff. Thrash was where I wanted to go for the first time ever. I actually went to a website to look up Thrash bands for ideas. Paradox was on the list. Hell, I had almost forgotten about them. They had been around forever so the old-schoolers would have something to enjoy. Bonus. They also actually had a bit of a progressive tinge for a Thrash band as well. I bought “Electrified” and heard the excellent mix of all that with the power. The opening riff on “Infected” sealed the deal in my mind. The trick was that I wanted them in the opening slot. Even though they had been around forever, they still only had four albums out with limited appeal over here other than a minor cult following. I also wanted a high power opener to balance out the other night. The allure of finally appearing here in the States was enough to convince the band that ProgPower was the show they wanted to do.

Glenn, you have no idea how giddy this makes me feel! God bless you for finally walking towards the beautiful light of thrash metal. Well...OK...Paradox are not 100% thrash, but they are damn close.

Plus, I gotta be honest....if Manticora fits ProgPower, then so does Paradox. They are very similar to my ears....fast and intense. Being almost 40, I have been listening to these guys since my senior year of high school.

It was a TRUE delight seeing the video of INFECTED on the screen as Paradox was announced. I nearly passed out throwing the horns. VenomGA can attest to that.

And yes, you are right....that guitar riff in Infected is ear candy. I can't wait to hear 'em. I have heard bits and pieces of the new album (Riot Squad) on their Myspace page, and it is sounding good (as I was totally expecting).

So, kudos to you for APPEALING to us prog/power fans that like our music with a dose of maniacal meanderings. Progressive Thrash.....yeah baby!

 

[Prog_Please]

I find it ironic that here on the ProgPower forum, many people are strongly against calling Opeth Progressive Metal, while in the General Discussion forum, the vast majority will strongly argue that Opeth is not death metal at all. Haha.

 

[nomisofsiman]

I find it ironic that here on the ProgPower forum, many people are strongly against calling Opeth Progressive Metal, while in the General Discussion forum, the vast majority will strongly argue that Opeth is not death metal at all. Haha.

They're a crossover band. They are prog, whether people want to admit it or not. On the flipside though, they have a lot of fans that are pure death metal fans too. But, if you were to classify them, you couldn't describe them as anything but progressive. The thing is there are a lot of other bands like this. Orphaned Land, Amorphis, Tool and a number of others are all prog metal, but they have their own style that is unlike anyone else.

In particular, I find it very interesting that people say at X that Saturday was too prog heavy, when you can't clearly classify Orphaned land in the same boat as Circus Maximus, Pagan's Mind or Fates. In fact, judging by their reaction, I bet at a future progpower that Orphaned Land could headline or maybe be the second to last band. Basically what I'm saying is that there are a lot of prog metal acts that could headline and play PPUSA who aren't the a-typical Dream Theater bands that WILL appeal to more of the power metal fans.

 

[Pellaz]

I think it's safe to say that Opeth have worn the prog-death-metal mantle pretty much since their inception. After all, Glenn very nearly booked them for ProgPower USA III, and from Orchid on out they've been playing long, intricate songs.

This thread has morphed well away from its original intent, but the discussion has been fascinating and, for the most part, civil.

 

[General Zod]

Zod, I had a long reply to your post ready to rip but I realized that it would just derail this thread pretty hardcore. Ultimately, we are clashing on bare bones artistic opinion/perception alone and nothing more. It would amount to nothing more than a pissing contest.

Agreed.

If you want to talk about our perceptions on what makes Opeth and Mastodon prog or what doesn't, we should probably do it via PM or another thread.

These genre discussions are almost always fruitless. As you said, we're arguing opinion.

My ultimate point in this thread is that if we look at prog metal as the graduating class of the DT school, then it's no wonder we can't find a headliner. These bands are young, on small labels, don't have a lot of touring experience or album sales, etc. Comparing them to Hammerfall and Rhapsody is absurd...

I'd agree with all of this.

...and in my opinion we should be stacking up Opeth and Porcupine Tree against them instead.

"Stacking" them up for the purposes of headlining this festival or for the purposes of asserting the popularity of Prog?

Zod

 

[VenomGA]

Glenn, you have no idea how giddy this makes me feel! God bless you for finally walking towards the beautiful light of thrash metal. Well...OK...Paradox are not 100% thrash, but they are damn close.

Plus, I gotta be honest....if Manticora fits ProgPower, then so does Paradox. They are very similar to my ears....fast and intense. Being almost 40, I have been listening to these guys since my senior year of high school.

It was a TRUE delight seeing the video of INFECTED on the screen as Paradox was announced. I nearly passed out throwing the horns. VenomGA can attest to that.

And yes, you are right....that guitar riff in Infected is ear candy. I can't wait to hear 'em. I have heard bits and pieces of the new album (Riot Squad) on their Myspace page, and it is sounding good (as I was totally expecting).

So, kudos to you for APPEALING to us prog/power fans that like our music with a dose of maniacal meanderings. Progressive Thrash.....yeah baby!

I don;t know who was going more nuts when the first note of Paradox played, me or you? We both knew who it was well before the name hit the screen!!!

 

[actordude]

Glenn - thank you so much for continuing to give a shot at getting Pretty Maids. They are one of my favorite bands and just knowing how hard you are trying to get them gives me hope for the future.......

 

[MetalRose]

Even though I personally would prefer otherwise, I agree that the main acts should be progressive metal and power metal.

However, to me, progressive metal is more than DT clones and spans the other genres as well. So I don't think it'd be "against" ProgPower USA to have Progressive forms of other metal subgenres (Opeth / Oceans Of Sadness / Division By Zero for example).

My original comment was not meant as anything more than "I personally think its a bummer Oceans Of Sadness was chosen because it was high on Glenn's playlist count, not because Glenn wanted a cross-genre Prog band this year." It was a personal statement of my personal opinion. (Ideally, I'd want both conditions to have been satisfied )

Gotcha now. I thought you were complaining that there wasn't enough heavier bands on the fest.

Honestly, there are some years that I'll hit the fest and not watch more than a song or two from a couple of bands.... Just because it isn't "my year" for bands. I'd never bitch to Glenn about it because it was my choice to come and I'm always greatful for a chance to see my family and to see bands that I might not ever see again. And the experience of ProgPower isn't something that can be described... and for me to miss it over a couple of bands that I'm not fond of? Eh, the pros way out weight the cons.

I'd rather go and support the fest, then have it fall apart.

-MetalRose

 

[nomisofsiman]

Gotcha now. I thought you were complaining that there wasn't enough heavier bands on the fest.

Honestly, there are some years that I'll hit the fest and not watch more than a song or two from a couple of bands.... Just because it isn't "my year" for bands. I'd never bitch to Glenn about it because it was my choice to come and I'm always greatful for a chance to see my family and to see bands that I might not ever see again. And the experience of ProgPower isn't something that can be described... and for me to miss it over a couple of bands that I'm not fond of? Eh, the pros way out weight the cons.

I'd rather go and support the fest, then have it fall apart.

-MetalRose

Can I get an amen? AMEN!!!

 

[sccaldwell]

I guess we could argue this point all day w/o hard evidence / national survey, but I can assure you its true for kids ages 18-24 (I'd like to think I've been somewhat social during my college life). Price is why myself, my friends, and my friend's friends choose beer over wine, hole in the wall bbq place over the high end stake house, and posters over paintings. If we were offered wine, fine dining and paintings at low prices as well, of course we'd go for that option.

Jumping in here... That's true for some, but not for some. That was never true for me, and still isn't today. I'm simply not a big wine fan, for starters. I can appreciate a good wine, but I'm just as happy with a good beer, if not happier, so the fact that a good glass of wine is $15 but a good beer is only $5 is simply a nice bonus.

As for the food side, I *love* a good BBQ place, and yes, the good ones usually are a hole-in-the-wall (and in a way, I enjoy that particularly "charm").

Obviously, I love a good steak/seafood place, too, but I wouldn't always have steak even if the price were the same as BBQ. That was true when I was a poor college student, and true today, when I'm not.

 

[Miles Neff]

Glenn, thank you so much for the fantastic line-up this coming year.

I know of atleast 7 other ProgPower "first timers" driving up from Florida this year because the line-up is too much to pass up!

I may have to ebay off a few things around the house to afford a ticket, but it will be more than worth it

Cheers,
Miles

 

[Pellaz]

Can I get an amen? AMEN!!!

Sorry, bub, they don't really fit the festival.

 

[nomisofsiman]

Sorry, bub, they don't really fit the festival.

I was referring to MetalRose's comment of simply going to support the fest. If you saw my previous posts, I DEFINITELY am against Anvil being at this fest.

 

[Magius]

I was referring to MetalRose's comment of simply going to support the fest. If you saw my previous posts, I DEFINITELY am against Anvil being at this fest.

He knew that. You'll get used to him... or not.

 

[adaher]

Amazing lineup, and thanks for going back to the template that made PP what it is.

 

[Harvester]

 

[AMBR]

He knew that. You'll get used to him... or not.

Sarcasm and facetiousness are ever so hard to convey on the internet, but our dear Pellaz keeps trying! Go Bro! We'll just have to keep our eyes open for those tell-tale emoticons.