The RIAA's next target - used CD's?

Opethfan1980

Jaded and Gaunt
May 8, 2002
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Music Industry Remains in Spin over Popularity of Used CDs

By Frank Green, The San Diego Union-Tribune
06.14.2002




Jun. 14--What's the difference between a shiny new compact disc and one that's been unwrapped and played a few times?

To Lucy Estrella's ear, none. To her pocketbook, a lot.

"It's cheap to buy used discs. They sound just the same as new ones," said Estrella, who browsed through the stacks at Off the Record in Hillcrest earlier this week. "I can buy two used ones for less than the price of a new one."

Such sentiments have struck sour notes in the recording industry, which is concerned about the growing retail presence of used-CD stores and Internet businesses such as Amazon.com, which sell both new and used recordings.

The industry worries that the expanding used market is cannibalizing new-CD sales, as well as promoting piracy by allowing consumers to buy, record and sell back discs while retaining their own digitally pristine copies.

One proposed remedy being debated by record label executives is federal legislation requiring used-CD retailers to pay royalties on secondary sales of albums.



A cover story in last week's issue of the music trade publication Billboard quoted several executives who said they favor the establishment of an agency that would exert a flat royalty rate say, 6 percent or so on retailers' sales of CDs sold over and over again.

The Recording Industry Association of America has not an official position on the issue.

You can see the boom in less-than-mint-condition merchandise in at least 40 record stores in San Diego County, including 17 Wherehouse Music outlets and 13 Music Trader shops. That's more than double the number of used-CD stores in the area in 1992.

Even music retail giant Tower Records has begun test-marketing the sale of used discs in Seattle, Berkeley and 11 other markets where it operates, although not here.

"We're responding to the competition in college towns," said Stan Gorman, Tower's chief operating officer.

Used-CD shops typically pay customers between $3 and $5 for their old discs, then sell them for $8 to $10. New CDs can be priced as high as $18 apiece.

The focus on the used-CD market comes at a time when new-CD sales continue to stagnate in the United States. Total sales last year were about $13 billion, unchanged from 2000.

Sales have been hurt largely by a surge in piracy, which the National Federation of the Phonographic Industry estimates has cost the music business $4.2 billion in lost revenue last year.

It is unclear how big the used-CD market is because many retailers are mom- and-pop entrepreneurs who do not report sales. There also is a large market in used product at swap meets.

A spokesman for the Recording Industry Association of America, which represents the major record labels, said it is especially concerned that many used CDs are being bought by people who "rip" the music using widely available CD-burner devices, then sell the used CDs back to the secondhand stores where they were originally purchased.

"That's an example of why labels are experimenting with copy-protection technology" that blocks duplication, said RIAA spokesman Jonathan Lamy.

But the idea of labels assessing part of the proceeds of used-CD sales is already drawing the wrath of independent record shop owners.

Phil Galloway, co-owner of Off the Record, said the proposal is another example of the record industry "shaking down" consumers for all it can get during a time of decline.

"On the first-time purchase, the label and the musician made their profit," noted Galloway, who with his business partner opened the first used-CD stores in San Diego County at the advent of the CD format in the mid-1980s. "You don't see royalties collected on used cars."

Galloway said royalty payments would force store owners to pass on the costs to Likewise, an executive at CD Warehouse Inc. the Oklahoma City-based owner of the Music Trader chain said the used-CD market to spur consumers' interest in artists' new releases.

"When Alanis Morissette's new album was released, we had a lot of customers in our stores looking for her (catalog album) 'Jagged Little Pill,' " said Matt Allen, the company's vice president.

CD Warehouse franchises and operates 289 used-CD shops in 35 states under the names Disc Go Round and CD Exchange, among other brands.

Allen said the industry's target audience has changed in recent years from college students trying to build inexpensive record collections to mostly male music fans between the ages of 18 and 34 looking for out-of-print and hard-to-find copies.

"We largely carry niche music that the Best Buys of the world don't have on their shelves anymore," Allen said.

Several customers shopping at the Music Trader on University Avenue this week said that although the prices for discs may be good, there are drawbacks to rummaging through the bins.

For one thing, the stores don't stock many new titles. And some major artists aren't represented at all.

"The program booklets are worn and torn a lot of times from overuse," said one shopper.
 
"A spokesman for the Recording Industry Association of America, which represents the major record labels, said it is especially concerned that many used CDs are being bought by people who "rip" the music using widely available CD-burner devices, then sell the used CDs back to the secondhand stores where they were originally purchased."

Tell me they don't have a point on that one.
 
Yes but Id like to actually know how many people go through that trouble. Id think more people actually keep the cds. But thats just me, I like haveing the real deal myself but I also rip every new cd I get to the pc simply because it easy access when I wanna listen to it.
 
Originally posted by blakmetalemp
Yes but Id like to actually know how many people go through that trouble. Id think more people actually keep the cds.

So at what ratio of burn-sell to just-keep do we consider this scenario a real problem that seriously should be addressed by the industry without being considered greedy fuckers?
 
I think it's time for the industry to start offering incentive to buy by upping the packaging. The latest Rhapsody disc, for example, was offered with a 32 page booklet, and DVD. I'm not going to get some POS CD-R when I can get all that.

Plus, if the mainstream music industry would start putting out music that holds people's attention for longer than 15 minutes, they wouldn't get such a high turnover ratio.
 
Originally posted by Jim LotFP


So at what ratio of burn-sell to just-keep do we consider this scenario a real problem that seriously should be addressed by the industry without being considered greedy fuckers?

Frankly, the industry isn't losing any money to this. The problem is that we've been in a recession for two years and they set their prices too high. People aren't going to pay $18 for a cd when the economy is tight.
 
Originally posted by Jim LotFP
"A spokesman for the Recording Industry Association of America, which represents the major record labels, said it is especially concerned that many used CDs are being bought by people who "rip" the music using widely available CD-burner devices, then sell the used CDs back to the secondhand stores where they were originally purchased."

Tell me they don't have a point on that one.

Agreed, people who engage in that sort of practice should be arrested.
 
Originally posted by Jim LotFP


I just think music is important and valuable and should be treated that way.

I agree, but I have this Green Day CD I received as a gift that I wouldn't mind getting rid of... :lol:

If someone was a casual fan and they wanted it, then it shouldn't be a bad thing to sell it.

The prices of CDs keep increasing. It makes you not want to buy new from record stores when you, after tax, it can easily cost you close to $20 a CD.

I've actually never bought a used CD, but I would generally consider it if the CD was rare/hard to find/out of print. For those CDs, do I need any added difficulty? :rolleyes:

Many people who care about music will want to support the artists they like. It's a bigger problem for casual music fans.

Well, I'm pretty tired, so my thoughts are kind of random. :lol:
 
Originally posted by TheLedTool
The prices of CDs keep increasing. It makes you not want to buy new from record stores when you, after tax, it can easily cost you close to $20 a CD.

My concern on this is not that the price of CDs are on the rise, but the fact that the portion that goes to the artist is not proportionally rising.

Originally posted by TheLedTool
I've actually never bought a used CD, but I would generally consider it if the CD was rare/hard to find/out of print. For those CDs, do I need any added difficulty? :rolleyes:


When I buy used, it's generally more ancient major label stuff...
 
Originally posted by Jim LotFP


My concern on this is not that the price of CDs are on the rise, but the fact that the portion that goes to the artist is not proportionally rising.

I agree. Artists deserve more than what they get. I guess this is what happens when art becomes such a large industry? I also feel people who abuse it should be prosecuted somehow, but I don't know how it can be done without violating the majority's rights. I personally will not d/l entire CDs, but I feel mp3s are a great way of finding music. People who respect music like myself are generally the same way. I probably would NEVER have gotten to hear Opeth without hearing mp3s...
 
I like to buy used CD's. The markets at uni and various 2nd hand shops are great. It is a bit like a lottery really, you never know what is going to be there and what condition it will be in. That is part of the fun...I would hate to see this culture destroyed, (because Australia will invariably follow the lead) which probably will happen because noone is going to pay near the same price for used CD's as new CD's. But it could be hard to regulate at places like markets anyway, which is a major source, at least around here.

Sure, the ripping thing is pretty dodgy, but seriously I don't know anyone who does that. And I know a lot of people who think that buying CD's is waste of money => mp3's. And it is usually the same stuff anyway, music with a life-cycle of a few months maybe.

hmmmmmm.
 
These people have no idea how the market works. Used cds are obviously an acceptable alternative to new ones, which means they should come down in price, but this hasn't happened. Of course, you could have said the same thing when Napster was a big deal, but they are still friggin expensive.
 
Originally posted by Jim LotFP
"A spokesman for the Recording Industry Association of America, which represents the major record labels, said it is especially concerned that many used CDs are being bought by people who "rip" the music using widely available CD-burner devices, then sell the used CDs back to the secondhand stores where they were originally purchased."

Tell me they don't have a point on that one.

I have to second what blakmetalemp said, but at what scale does this practice take place? Certainly not enough to cripple the industry nor probably anyone's pocket.
 
Exactly, I would like to know what the figures are, but Ive never seen any. Also whats the difference in buying "VINYL" used as opposed to buying a "CD"? Artist arent getting any money from vinyl sales are they? No. Instead its just called "COLLECTING". Its still music no matter what format its on. I think people are bitching so much about music issues because it seems to be the thing to do right now. Why dont they throw such fits when movies are EVERYWHERE before they hit the theaters? People will always look for some reason to bitch.

My opinoins only so take them at that.
 
Originally posted by blakmetalemp
Why dont they throw such fits when movies are EVERYWHERE before they hit the theaters? People will always look for some reason to bitch.

I'm not involved at all in the film industry and I don't really think movies are a big deal, so speaking out about something in an area where I have no attachment to would seem... silly. :)