the USA thread -

[stizzleomnibus]

I wasn't suggesting that Democrats were in favor of deregulation, but they clearly had a hand in one of the single greatest acts of deregulation. Even if it's a general Republican belief, the Democrats got behind and helped push this one.

Personally, I feel you have to blame the Bush administration. Constantly urging people to spend like mad after 9/11 did stave off a financial collapse, but it didn't stop there. Irresponsible citizen's and lenders, working under the freedom granted by GLB, worked together to double the volume of American debt six years. Somehow, no one noticed.

It is also interesting to think that GLB was itself an undoing of regulations put in place by Democrats immediately after the Great Depression to ensure that something like that didn't happen again.

 

[anita_job]

You're right that Clinton is also to blame for signing it. But it had a veto-proof majority in Congress, so his veto would've only been symbolic. In an effort to save his reputation after the whole Monica Lewinsky thing, he probably felt pressured to "accomplish" stuff, so on his instruction the congressional Democrats at least insisted upon the CRA language that Gramm had resisted for years -- a throw-them-a-bone kind of thing.

Yes. Every time Clinton signed and championed "Republican" legislation - NAFTA, kicking poor people esp. poor kids off welfre - he was just doing it because he "had no choice." Right.

The Democrats have championed and pushed deregulation and bailouts since Carter.

A nice little tidbit about the Democrats and deregulation from the Frontline website:

Just days after the administration (including the Treasury Department) agrees to support the repeal, Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, the former co-chairman of a major Wall Street investment bank, Goldman Sachs, raises eyebrows by accepting a top job at Citigroup as Weill's chief lieutenant. The previous year, Weill had called Secretary Rubin to give him advance notice of the upcoming merger announcement. When Weill told Rubin he had some important news, the secretary reportedly quipped, "You're buying the government?"

The two parties represent only one class in America.

 

[Lina]

Republicats, Democrans, blah blah blah...

 

[DisplayofCharacter]

Republicats, Democrans, blah blah blah...

Yeah, its hard to care when I realized I won't have any money. Ever. Dumpy economy is dumpy.

 

[plintus]

Yeah, its hard to care when I realized I won't have any money. Ever. Dumpy economy is dumpy.

Haha, I'm like your yearly allowance in the red after today In one fucking day!

Time to buy, bitch! Shit is hitting the fan, but I see no way from here but up. Slowly, but surely.

 

[Lina]

Yeah, its hard to care when I realized I won't have any money. Ever. Dumpy economy is dumpy.

No, I was being facetious. I think there are huge differences between the two parties.

 

[DisplayofCharacter]

Haha, I'm like your yearly allowance in the red after today In one fucking day!

Time to buy, bitch! Shit is hitting the fan, but I see no way from here but up. Slowly, but surely.

The irony is that I was going to use a student loan for some spending money so I can get some stuff I need, maybe a few items I don't. Now I'm worried I won't even get the damn loan even though I should. Regardless, being a student kind of sucks financially, moreso now than before IMO. (in before baww Suwat)

No, I was being facetious. I think there are huge differences between the two parties.

I wasn't being quite serious either. However, I do find the economic problems more interesting than inter-party tiffs. Having followed this election with somewhat-more-than-passing interest (more than mild, eh, whatever, hard for me to quantify) I do care about the difference.

I just find the dramatics to be a bit over-bearing, that is to say as long as they don't influence the election out of my favorite candidate's interest.

 

[stizzleomnibus]

I wasn't being quite serious either. However, I do find the economic problems more interesting than inter-party tiffs. Having followed this erection with somewhat-more-than-passing interest (more than mild, eh, whatever, hard for me to quantify) I do care about the difference.

I just find the dramatics to be a bit over-bearing, that is to say as long as they don't influence the erection out of my favorite candidate's interest.

We are all completely screwed in this next election, I feel. Hence, in the spirit of levity, I have symbolically replaced all instances of the letter "L" in the word election with letter "R" in your quote above.

 

[DisplayofCharacter]

We are all completely screwed in this next election, I feel. Hence, in the spirit of levity, I have symbolically replaced all instances of the letter "L" in the word election with letter "R" in your quote above.

It makes you sound like my girlfriend. I'm sorry.

I laughed. Nice job.

 

[dada]

The billions for millionaires was passed

The problem was not bad regulation, its no regulation.
There was regulation until Phil Gramm as member of Congress
single-handedly drove the USA financial system to the ground.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html

As an ordinary person, who is frustrated by the government
and where independent thinking is not heard
maybe Shakespeare said it best
and the next time they come for a bailout,

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers*"
Dick the Butcher, Henry VI, Act 4, Scene 2

*politicians

 

[plintus]

The billions for millionaires was passed

I don't see it that way.

 

[stizzleomnibus]

@dada: Interestingly, I have a coffee mug with that quote on it that I keep at work. I work for a law firm.

The thing about this bailout is that version that was passed was actually worse than the one that was turned down. This one basically includes a metric f-ton of tax breaks for local industries, so that congress-critters can claim that they were "looking out for their constituents." Of course, tax breaks for industry just means that I'll have to work that much harder to pay for this load of BS.

Granted, part of the intent of this bill was to make sure that there is liquid cash floating around for people who need credit. I'll probably be moving up to home ownership once housing prices bottom out, and I'll need that credit slack to get my mortgage. It's my money anyway, right? I actually know a guy who was just approved for a $350k mortgage, but had to wait a few days for the bank to get the money together for him.

Make sure to get out and vote. The reason this bill passed in the form that it did is because the government knows that the collective of American businesses exerts a lot more power than voters.

 

[Lina]

The thing about this bailout is that version that was passed was actually worse than the one that was turned down. This one basically includes a metric f-ton of tax breaks for local industries, so that congress-critters can claim that they were "looking out for their constituents." Of course, tax breaks for industry just means that I'll have to work that much harder to pay for this load of BS.

Yeah, the amount of pork and little pet projects in the bill is astounding, given how serious the situation is. But apparently they didn't have time to write new legislation from scratch, so they cobbled together a bunch of pending financial bills, already written. So now there are all these random things in it.

I was torn last Friday. On the one hand, part of me didn't want it to pass. Something had to be done, but I wanted them to keep hashing it out. On the other hand, I work for Congress, and passage means I'm basically off until January. So I'd be lying if I said I shed any tears.

 

[rahvin]

The billions for millionaires was passed

The problem was not bad regulation, its no regulation.
There was regulation until Phil Gramm as member of Congress
single-handedly drove the USA financial system to the ground.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/foreclosure-phil.html

As an ordinary person, who is frustrated by the government
and where independent thinking is not heard
maybe Shakespeare said it best
and the next time they come for a bailout,

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers*"
Dick the Butcher, Henry VI, Act 4, Scene 2

*politicians

Did your La Rocque account get banned or something? Just curious.

 

[Lina]

I thought that too.

 

[Misanthrope]

No offense to anybody in particular ( offense to everybody impersonally of course, im the fucking Misanthrope after all ) but it sounds so stupid when you speak about degrees and examples of deregulation. Social Democracy and moderate regulation its quite pointless at this point were the free market economy has advanced so much it can just reach out for derregulated third world countries to literally pillage and plunder until there's nothing left.

Globalism has made most regulatory arguments utterly irrelevant from a political and socio-economical point of view.

 

[anita_job]

Globalism has made most regulatory arguments utterly irrelevant from a political and socio-economical point of view.

Nonsense. The repeal of acts like Glass-Steagall had nothing to do with globalization and everything to do with the current meltdown.

The notion that globalization has made regulation irrelevant is a myth pushed by professional hacks like Thomas Friedman and other apologists for corporate rule, many of whom have now recanted in the face of the resulting disaster and are now clamoring for more regulation.

 

[Mr. Leviathan]

Ah the US presidential election is exciting, and I can't imagine what it would be like in the United States.

 

[Defiance]

^ Yeah, Obama will certainly win (right now he has 207, whilst McCain has 135), I guess that's good (at least for the US) .

Edit:

Funny thing that I finish making the post and I hear Obama elected president!

Well I say it's pretty amazing that he has won without Florida, he has 297 and McCain has 135.

 

[Mr. Leviathan]

^ Yeah, Obama will certainly win (right now he has 207, whilst McCain has 135), I guess that's good (at least for the US) .

Edit:

Funny thing that I finish making the post and I hear Obama elected president!

Well I say it's pretty amazing that he has won without Florida, he has 297 and McCain has 135.

Without Florida - that is amazing! Although it looks like Florida might go to Obama. This is good for the entire world; I regard the United States as a great nation and I hope that President Obama can restore it to its greatness and can make it a force for good in the world again.

EDIT: It was very exciting following the election results as they came, what a campaign!

Senator McCain's concession speech was very nice, also.

Yes, Florida goes to Obama.