Lina
kickass elizabethan style
Simply judging her based on how she handles her marriage seems sexist in that subconscious, pernicious way (I can't think of any male candidate whose marriage has been scrutinized), but then to somehow blame the victim of an affair for her response to it and to assume she must have dubious intentions is an example of the absurd double standard powerful females are held to: She can't be too strong because then she's a bitch -- and, in this case, a power-hungry, self-interested bitch -- but she also can't have moments of weakness because then she's too "emotional" (and other such negative traits still attached to females) to serve.I don't take offense, but I do want to respond. Without getting too personal, a full-blown affair has/had affected me (though it didn't involve me directly [I wasn't a participant], it did involve some very close family members, if you really, really want me to clarify, I can, I'm not embarrassed I'd just prefer not to). Coincidentally or not, the affair was discovered and the repercussions were felt around the time the Clinton scandle was being publicized. Now, I was only speaking for myself. I'm sure many people forgive full-blown affairs (or blowjobs), but I (at this point in my life) don't know if I could. I understand that fully qualifies as bias, but:
I doubt the public shares my perspective (especially because what happened to me was a somewhat unusual circumstance), but I was speaking only for myself, and those close to me who's opinions I am sure of. I don't think she is detestable or a bad person. I respect her choices, I just don't necessarily agree with them. Just as I respect your opinion - I mean, I do understand what you mean.
Basically I have a problem with it on a base level. Without going too far into psychoanalysis of myself, I'll move on.
As far as pure politics, she's using Bill like a walking billboard (pun a little bit intended). Bill isn't running for president again. I do understand its his choice, and I completely understand and applaud her for using the resources available to drive her campaign home (Bill didn't have an ex-president for a wife). I think its a great use of resources on her part and I'd do the same in her circumstance. However, my contention is with what I don't see: publicly, a lot of love, affection, etc. that would give any evidence to your example. This probably is just my level of political exposure (I do care about what goes on, but I'm not a political science major and I usually just read articles, I don't watch a ton of news or videos, just a few - maybe one or two a day). I sure don't want to see them making out (*shudders*), but I don't see much love. Definitely mutual respect, but not a lot of love, which I equate to what Clinton is trying to express in your quote. That compounds the issue, because a large portion of the campaign (too large, I think, almost as important as the issues if not as) is about public image, and it looks to me like she's using him.
However, I can't speak about them and how they interact away from publicity. They could have a great marriage, they could hate each other as far as I know. Personally, I don't really care.
However, I disagree that it is sexist (at least in my circumstance). I don't care what gender Clinton is, its what she did, and what she shows that bothers me (as I hopefully explained well enough above). If a guy did it, I wouldn't respect him any more or any less. I disagree with it in principle, not as a personal affront. I don't think there are any sexist motives involved in that at all.
Could you give an example?
I know this was a damn lot to read through, so if you need clarification just say so. I'm really not trying to be argumentative, just show you where I'm coming from (and hopefully I'm not coming off as an egomaniacal asshole).
And, for the record, this is coming from someone who can't stand feminazis, or anyone who enjoys playing the victim for that matter.
You say your opinion is shaped by being exposed to affairs. (I have plenty of my own experience in that regard, both with couples who should've broken up as a result and with couples who worked through it and stayed together happily for the same reasons that Hillary described. But that's for another thread.) OK, so you personally don't think you would tolerate being cheated on, and you find it hard to respect people who do tolerate it. Fine. But then you make a giant leap to assume it was for her own political gain. And it's not just you who makes that argument; Fox News pundits and those other sacks of shit like Chris Matthews repeat it over and over as if it were fact.
Also, analyzing how much they love each other by, if not kissing, what?, their body language? (do they stand disproportionately farther apart from each other than the other candidate couples? um, i don't think so? wtf is going on here?) during public, professional events seems absolutely bizarre.
And as for her "using him" to campaign for her, what other candidate's spouse isn't out there on the campaign trail? The Republican candidates never miss an opportunity to extol their constituents' favorite traits in their wives: beauty, charm, reticence, child-rearing abilities, etc. Obama self-effacingly (in a totally calculated, affected way) admits to Michelle scolding him or correcting him or advising him. John Edwards' wife is fucking DYING OF CANCER, yet he dragged her out on the campaign trail with him, rather than quietly spending her last few months alive with his family, but no one seems to malign his character for it. (Eh, I just reread that part of your post, and you weren't actually arguing against Bill campaigning with her, so nevermind I guess. But I'm going to leave this paragraph, because it's still important I think.)
Just so you know, I think we probably have more similar stances than I have with several other people here, so I don't have any particular bone to pick with you. I just think this is an interesting conversation.
