Thrash Theory

[sceloporus]

Well me and and two of my friends want to start a thrash band.
We want to start writing but I'm not really aware of how to write thrash Although I have a basic understanding of the types of riffs to write). So my questions are:
Is there music theory (scales, arpeggios) associated with the genre? If so, what kind?
What is the relationship between lead and rhythm guitars within riffs.
What are good scales(if not scales then chords) to apply to solos within songs?

I appreciate all input.

 

[oldschoolowns]

I would like to know this too, so speak up.

 

[EerieVon]

Thrash basics....
Palm Mute
Power Chord fast
Alternate pick fast

thats about all there is to it..atleast for the basics..

A thrash riff usually consists of somthing like this.
e---------------------------------------------
B---------------------------------------------
G---------------------------------------------
D-------------------------765---------------
A-------------------------543---------------
E-00000000000000---------------------
p.m......................

if you have two guitars play the riff together for a powerful sound.

Another example
e---------------------------------------------
B---------------------------------------------
G---------------------------------------------
D-------------------------321---------------
A-------------------------321---------------
E-0000000000000---------------------
p.m......................

When playing the 0s alternate pick..get this down and u got the basics of a thrash guitarist.



Keep in mind thrash is about feel, about the riff.

Listen to some thrash, particularly bands like Kreator, Death Angel, early Megadeth, early Testament, Vio-lence, Heathen, Forbidden, Sodom,Flotsam and Jetsam, and Venom(technically not thrash but hugely influenced the scene)

 

[waif]

Eerie Von is right. Thrash is mostly power chords and palm muted open-E. For solos, just do what feels right to you. Some thrash guitarists are pretty technical about soloing (like Skolnick), others just devolve into wah-fueled wankery (*cough*Hammet*cough*). Others try to destroy their guitar strings, like Slayer. And some aren't any good at guitar at all, like Venom. So essentially do whatever you think fits the music. Slayer would suck with Skolnick on lead, and Testament would blow chunks with KFK on guitar (actually, most bands would).

 

[sceloporus]

Thats kinda what i was thinking, thanks for confirming.
Are there any scales associated(or that you recommend) to use?
I'm currently considering harmonic minor scales.

 

[sumairetsu]

You can get away with using the harmonic minor scale. It also helps to add the diminished 5th or tritone (aka the "Devil's Interval"). For instance, if you're playing in the key of E minor, your diminished 5th would be B flat. This helps add a somewhat dissonant tonality to the feel of the music, typical of Thrash.

The diminished scale also works well. The set up for this scale has the interval steps of whole step, half step and repeats. Your diminished scale in E would look like this:

E, F#, G, A, Bb, C, Db, Eb

You may want to try getting a book of scale forms and working with those. For instance, you may find that using the whole tone scale works to your advantage or a Japanese or Indian music scale does wonders for the riff you're trying to come up with.

In all, it's all about feel. My personal recommendation is not to listen to other bands of the genre that you're trying to write in for a while. This way, you're not finding yourself painted into a corner with your riffs.

 

[sceloporus]

Awesome, thanks for your help.

 

[Valerie]

Don't forget pedal point! This is basically alternating between a (usually) fixed note on a lower string and one or multiple notes on a higher one.

An example of pedal point is in this riff in No Remorse by Metallica

||---------------------------|--------------------------|
||*--------------------------|--------------------------|
||---------------------------|--------------------------|
||---------------------------|--------------------------|
||*-------10--------9--------|--7--------5--------5--7--|
||--0--0------0--0-----0--0--|-----0--0-----0--0--------|

The low E's are palm muted.

 

[EerieVon]

as I said listen to alot of thrash bands, listen for the arrangements, etc. Almost every band has their own style.

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

First of all, there's this thing called "tonality" that must be avoided at all costs. Use a lot of parallel fourth and fifth chords in every riff and if your song begins to express any sort of tonal harmony what-so-ever, you're doing it wrong. If this should happen though, double check immediately to make sure you didn't accidentally play a third somewhere, because what do you think you are, a melodeath band? You'll also want to practice your tremolo picking, because nothing's more embarrassing than when your hands cramp up on stage and you're suddenly unable to continue playing that same old note. For solos, chromatics and accidentals will be your best friends. Just work on playing as many notes as you possibly can in the five to ten seconds that you have, don't even worry about what it sounds like.

But seriously, minor and phrygian scales are probably your best bet, as well as pentatonic scales, which don't reveal as much about what you're trying to accomplish tonally. Generally though, whichever scale you're using, it shouldn't be followed too strictly, because accidentals are one of the defining characteristics of thrash music. Parallel fourths and fifths will help you accomplish this with fairly little effort or general understanding of music at all for that matter. Just relax and play what you feel like, really.

 

[oldschoolowns]

First of all, there's this thing called "tonality" that must be avoided at all costs. Use a lot of parallel fourth and fifth chords in every riff and if your song begins to express any sort of tonal harmony what-so-ever, you're doing it wrong. If this should happen though, double check immediately to make sure you didn't accidentally play a third somewhere, because what do you think you are, a melodeath band? You'll also want to practice your tremolo picking, because nothing's more embarrassing than when your hands cramp up on stage and you're suddenly unable to continue playing that same old note. For solos, chromatics and accidentals will be your best friends. Just work on playing as many notes as you possibly can in the five to ten seconds that you have, don't even worry about what it sounds like.

But seriously, minor and phrygian scales are probably your best bet, as well as pentatonic scales, which don't reveal as much about what you're trying to accomplish tonally. Generally though, whichever scale you're using, it shouldn't be followed too strictly, because accidentals are one of the defining characteristics of thrash music. Parallel fourths and fifths will help you accomplish this with fairly little effort or general understanding of music at all for that matter. Just relax and play what you feel like, really.

wow. so helpful.

 

[sceloporus]

Don't forget pedal point! This is basically alternating between a (usually) fixed note on a lower string and one or multiple notes on a higher one.

An example of pedal point is in this riff in No Remorse by Metallica

||---------------------------|--------------------------|
||*--------------------------|--------------------------|
||---------------------------|--------------------------|
||---------------------------|--------------------------|
||*-------10--------9--------|--7--------5--------5--7--|
||--0--0------0--0-----0--0--|-----0--0-----0--0--------|

The low E's are palm muted.

I kinda thought that was part of it because every thrash tab I've seen has similar riffs.
But i still appreciate you mentioning it,.

And thanks for everyone else's help too, I've already written a bunch of riffs using harmonic minor (not really preferred for thrash but i love that scale).

 

[Valerie]

I kinda thought that was part of it because every thrash tab I've seen has similar riffs.
But i still appreciate you mentioning it,.

And thanks for everyone else's help too, I've already written a bunch of riffs using harmonic minor (not really preferred for thrash but i love that scale).

Hah, yeah, lots of guitarists do that. There's also inverted pedal point though, which is obviously just the opposite; a higher repeated note and different lower notes.

 

[waif]

First of all, there's this thing called "tonality" that must be avoided at all costs. Use a lot of parallel fourth and fifth chords in every riff and if your song begins to express any sort of tonal harmony what-so-ever, you're doing it wrong. If this should happen though, double check immediately to make sure you didn't accidentally play a third somewhere, because what do you think you are, a melodeath band? You'll also want to practice your tremolo picking, because nothing's more embarrassing than when your hands cramp up on stage and you're suddenly unable to continue playing that same old note. For solos, chromatics and accidentals will be your best friends. Just work on playing as many notes as you possibly can in the five to ten seconds that you have, don't even worry about what it sounds like.

Somebody likes thrash.

Don't forget pedal point! This is basically alternating between a (usually) fixed note on a lower string and one or multiple notes on a higher one.

An example of pedal point is in this riff in No Remorse by Metallica

I think Slayer use this more than any other band. It's a great way to get an ominous sorta sound.

For arranging stuff, With modern thrash sometimes they'll play an intro riff and then suddenly stop and then go into a fast verse riff. Can sound kinda cool. You could try that. Also remember that every song needs at least one absolutely killer riff.

When playing the 0s alternate pick..

Stuff like that sounds better all downstrokes. Won't be as fast, but heavier. That riff is to simple to be fast, anyhow.

 

[BlackMetalWhiteGuy]

Stuff like that sounds better all downstrokes. Won't be as fast, but heavier. That riff is to simple to be fast, anyhow.

When you alternate pick correctly, upstrokes and downstrokes both sound the same.

 

[Valerie]

When you alternate pick correctly, upstrokes and downstrokes both sound the same.

Yeah, I always thought using exclusively down strokes was pretty gay. If you're picking single notes, it'll sound the same. If you're picking a chord, then I see where it'll sound a little different because you're starting on a different note and picking in a different direction, but even so, you won't be able to hear any difference when picking fast with distortion, it only really matters for arpegios.

 

[waif]

Yeah, I always thought using exclusively down strokes was pretty gay. If you're picking single notes, it'll sound the same. If you're picking a chord, then I see where it'll sound a little different because you're starting on a different note and picking in a different direction, but even so, you won't be able to hear any difference when picking fast with distortion, it only really matters for arpegios.

It depends. A lot of people tend to pull up when hitting a chord, to get the pick out of the way so they don't hit extra strings. This way the lower strings (E and A) tend to get hit harder. Going the other way they'll do it the same way, so the higher strings will sound the most clearly. It usually does make a difference.

As for single strings, it depends on the speed. Going fast, you aren't using enough force for it to make a difference. If you're playing 16th notes or slower then with downstrokes you'll hit the string harder than usual, giving it a heavier sound. This only makes a difference if you're palm muting. Without palm muting there won't be any difference.