To the 2 people who left towels on their seats most of the night ....

[Everonn]

I don't understand what we don't get here. This is as simple as it gets. Until we can buy a reserved seat, the rule in play is "there are no saved seats". It's a beautiful thing; one rule that applies to us all, equally, without discrimination. Either a seat has a warm body in it or that seat is available. That's it. There are no saved seats. Everyone plays under the same rule. I get it. There are no saved seats. If someone sees an empty seat, they can sit in it. They don't even have to ask, because there are no saved seats. We don't even have to listen to a sob story. THERE ARE NO SAVED SEATS. If a person vacates a seat and comes back to find it occupied, that's their tough shit. Why? Because there are no fucking saved seats!

You must go to an awful lot of shows all by your lonesome. That system works fine if nobody ever wants to enjoy a show along with any friends or family.

If some asshole sits in my wife's seat because she had the nerve to take a leak or find a drink and subsequently has to sit in another section from me because "there are no saved seats" then I'm going to take issue with that, and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that Glenn would take issue with that as well. This conversation should be about fighting blatant abuse of saving unattended seats for an unreasonable amount of time, not about a dogmatic approach in search of a utopian solution that applies to us all, equally, without discrimination. There ought to be some discrimination. Discrimination says that's my wife's seat, and she's going to be sitting next to me when she comes back. If some asshole has a problem with that, they can take it up with whomever is responsible for their lack of common sense.


- Chris

 

[PromisedLand]

My wife does a lot of the waiting in line (Artmore reservation, the few autograph sessions we want, the bar).. I keep my butt in my seat and her bag on the one right next to me.

I think that's reasonable. I've refused to hold seats for other people, though. If you drop your program bag on the seat and expect it to save it, that's not cool and it's going to wind up on the floor.

 

[DADRocks]

You must go to an awful lot of shows all by your lonesome. That system works fine if nobody ever wants to enjoy a show along with any friends or family.

If some asshole sits in my wife's seat because she had the nerve to take a leak or find a drink and subsequently has to sit in another section from me because "there are no saved seats" then I'm going to take issue with that, and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that Glenn would take issue with that as well. This conversation should be about fighting blatant abuse of saving unattended seats for an unreasonable amount of time, not about a dogmatic approach in search of a utopian solution that applies to us all, equally, without discrimination. There ought to be some discrimination. Discrimination says that's my wife's seat, and she's going to be sitting next to me when she comes back. If some asshole has a problem with that, they can take it up with whomever is responsible for their lack of common sense.


- Chris

Amen......I'm right with you. My buddy goes to the restroom, or grabs a drink, or is finishing up in an autograph line.....my butts in the seat next to it saving it. Good luck to someone just trying to throw the bag away and sitting down. It wasn't an issue all weekend doing it this way so I don't think too many people had an issue this way.

 

[Justin G]

Guys, nobody is bitching about people whose friend/spouse/hetero life-mate saves their seat for a quick break. People are upset at when nobody is there and there's just a bag with a program "saving a seat." Or one person saving multiple seats for people who never show up.

Breathe.

 

[DADRocks]

Guys, nobody is bitching about people whose friend/spouse/hetero life-mate saves their seat for a quick break. People are upset at when nobody is there and there's just a bag with a program "saving a seat." Or one person saving multiple seats for people who never show up.

Breathe.

You'd think that, but CM's post above is definitely against any saving. So saying "nobody" isn't exactly correct.

 

[Everonn]

Guys, nobody is bitching about people whose friend/spouse/hetero life-mate saves their seat for a quick break.

Some posts in this thread suggest that at least a couple of people are bitching about exactly that.

People are upset at when nobody is there and there's just a bag with a program "saving a seat." Or one person saving multiple seats for people who never show up.

Indeed. So we agree there ought to be considerations to be made, judgement calls based on a common understanding of where the line is between reasonable and unreasonable seat-saving behavior. But not everyone here has demonstrated a willingness to reach a common understanding, instead specifically calling for a ass-in-seat-or-tough-shit model (like in the post I had quoted) that is not practical, logical or reasonable in any way.


- Chris

 

[Justin G]

You'd think that, but CM's post above is definitely against any saving. So saying "nobody" isn't exactly correct.

Well, I try not to judge any group by its lunatic fringe.

 

[DADRocks]

Well, I try not to judge any group by its lunatic fringe.

As do I, for some reason, I'm not as good at it as you are!!

 

[Charles Muller]

I wasn't trying to insult anyone here. I'm just saying that "no saving seats" means just that to me. You don't have to insult me for that interpretation. But as a matter of fact, I have no problem going to a show by myself but usually have company. But since you are so threatened by my dogma, try this. If I'm sitting in a seat and you walk up and say "That was my wife's seat...so get up", don't be surprised when I go to fist city on you and you will have instigated the conflict. I assume the "no saving seats" policy is in place to avoid that exact result.

 

[Justin G]

I wasn't trying to insult anyone here. I'm just saying that "no saving seats" means just that to me. You don't have to insult me for that interpretation. But as a matter of fact, I have no problem going to a show by myself but usually have company. But since you are so threatened by my dogma, try this. If I'm sitting in a seat and you walk up and say "That was my wife's seat...so get up", don't be surprised when I go to fist city on you and you will have instigated the conflict. I assume the "no saving seats" policy is in place to avoid that exact result.

This is something you feel is worth literally assaulting someone over?

 

[Charles Muller]

I'm not the one who made the first threat or insult here, JG. I'm trying to illustrate the need of the policy (which I might be wrong about). Here we are throwing around insults and threats and we are just talking about it. Things get worse in the flesh. That's why there's "no saving seats". If I'm wrong about the goal here, I will say I'm wrong.

 

[Justin G]

Good grief. There isn't a "no saving seats for any reason whatsoever" policy. I'm mystified that you think this is something worth punching someone over.

 

[sccaldwell]

If I'm sitting in a seat and you walk up and say "That was my wife's seat...so get up", don't be surprised when I go to fist city on you and you will have instigated the conflict.

I think you missed his point....he wouldn't be walking up to you to say that...he'd be already sitting in the seat next to it saying that.

Much as I'm against "saving" seats with bags and towels, I'm fine with a PERSON saving another person's seat, as log as they come back in a reasonable amount of time...20 minutes or so.

In the flip side of that, if you're saving someone's seat for three hours, I have two observations:

1) your friends are douchebags for putting that on you, to deal we all the people coming up asking about the seat, some of whom will get angry with you
2) you're an idiot for agreeing to it.

 

[Everonn]

I think a couple of good rules for the fest are (1) no saving seats for an unreasonable/extended period of time but saving seats for a short-term/reasonable purpose should be permitted, and (2) nobody who uses the phrase "go to fist city on you" to represent their approach to conflict resolution should be allowed at the fest or in public places.

Here we are throwing around insults and threats and we are just talking about it. Things get worse in the flesh.

You're the one who announced your intention to immediately respond to a disagreement about seating policy into a physical altercation. Most of us are talking about it without the need to show what a big man we can be with our fists for anybody who disagrees with us.


- Chris

 

[Charles Muller]

I think a couple of good rules for the fest are (1) no saving seats for an unreasonable/extended period of time but saving seats for a short-term/reasonable purpose should be permitted, and (2) nobody who uses the phrase "go to fist city on you" to represent their approach to conflict resolution should be allowed at the fest or in public places.


You're the one who announced your intention to immediately respond to a disagreement about seating policy into a physical altercation. Most of us are talking about it without the need to show what a big man we can be with our fists for anybody who disagrees with us.


- Chris

What the hell are you talking about? Re-read the post you made directly after my initial post to this thread. If you are going to target me as your "issue", than I will be more than happy to accomodate you, all because you don't want the no saving seats rule to apply to you.

 

[Everonn]

What the hell are you talking about? Re-read the post you made directly after my initial post to this thread. If you are going to target me as your "issue",

I wasn't targeting you... I was disagreeing with you and targeting the asshole who sits in the seat beside me as soon as my wife steps away for a little while. Until it happens I have no reason to believe you specifically would be that asshole.

than I will be more than happy to accomodate you, all because you don't want the no saving seats rule to apply to you.

There is no such rule, as you understand it. Your strict interpretation of what "no reserved seating" means in the context of the festival has never been practiced by its attendees or advocated by its promoter. The stated guideline of "don't be an asshole" leaves much more room for more reasonable allowances for seat-saving than your misinterpretation of the guideline permits.


- Chris

 

[Charles Muller]

I will let Glenn speak for himself on his advocacy or lack thereof of his no saving seats policy. See, what constitutes a "reasonable" seat save period is allot longer for the person saving the seat than it is for the poor slob looking for an empty seat that isn't saved, and that's what causes problems. Can we agree on that?

 

[Everonn]

I will let Glenn speak for himself on his advocacy or lack thereof of his no saving seats policy. See, what constitutes a "reasonable" seat save period is allot longer for the person saving the seat than it is for the poor slob looking for an empty seat that isn't saved, and that's what causes problems. Can we agree on that?

Sure, so long as we can agree that the problem of finding an unsaved seat grows exponentially larger with each group of people who want to enjoy the show together. If you think finding one unsaved seat is challenging, it's nothing compared to challenge of having to find two seats together every time one person has to go to the bathroom (which is what you're advocating). It becomes many more times the challenge for 3 friends who have the audacity to want to hang out together at a show... God forbid we decide to bring one of our older kids to the show someday. Now our hypothetical asshole is displacing entire families because one person in the group had to pee, and the asshole's "right" to that one non-ass-saved seat trumps everyone else's right to enjoy the show with a friend or group of friends without having to stand through the whole thing. There's room for a much more reasonable balance than that.


- Chris

 

[High Speed Kurt]

 

[Mardoch]