To the pros: Give me good reasons to switch to PT TDM

[MetalSound]

i´m currently running nuendo 3 on my pc and it is a very stable system. but i´m thinking about switching to pro tools tdm. the new hd system is not an option for me because it´s too expensive and i can get the older tdm system on the used market for very cheap.

here are my pros and cons i´m thinking of. maybe you can add something to the list.

pro:
zero latency recording
compatibility with other pro studios (though i don´t really need that)
no need for expensive software upgrades (nuendo 5 costs about 500 euro)

contra:
i have to learn a completely new system/workflow
limited to 48 tracks (or am i wrong?)
can´t use my beloved uad plugins
tdm plugins are much more expensive


how many mix farms can you add? limited only by the amount of free pci slots? i don´t want to having to render big cpu hungry plugins. does the mix3 tdm have enough power to handle 48 tracks with lots of plugs?
i´m running my system with 4 uad cards on roundabout 90% plus some waves plugins without big problems.

 

[greyskull]

mix doesn't too delay compensation either iirc.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

contra:
i have to learn a completely new system/workflow

takes 2 weeks

contra:

limited to 48 tracks (or am i wrong?)

wrong

contra:

can´t use my beloved uad plugins

of course you can

contra:

tdm plugins are much more expensive

true,but you can still use native RTAS = same price as vst


ah, just got it, you were talking about that ancient version?

 

[MetalSound]

yep, not the hd version.
can it handle more than 48 tracks?
uad plugins/cards work with tdm?!? really? that would be great!

 

[Lasse Lammert]

don't know about tdm, was thinking HD

 

[AHChris]

I don´t know much about TDM but I´d say... Never change a running system.

 

[MetalSound]

that´s a good point especially when you have to rely on it but it wouldn´t be changing a system but more building a completely new one.

 

[::XeS::]

I don´t know much about TDM but I´d say... Never change a running system.

So we have to drive cars from the 20's because probably they can still work?

 

[Lasse Lammert]

Not sure about the compatibility thing, most studios work with HD 7.4 or 8, is the old tdm and mix-system compatible with those PTF files?

 

[AHChris]

So we have to drive cars from the 20's because probably they can still work?

No, you could switch to a newer, more reliable car... But I don´t know if there´s any sense in switching from one car from the 20´s (nuendo 3) to another car from the 20´s (ProTools TDM).

 

[Straight Shooter]

Not sure about the compatibility thing, most studios work with HD 7.4 or 8, is the old tdm and mix-system compatible with those PTF files?

I moved from Mix to HD in 2003 but what I do recall is that you can open old PT 6.4 sessions (last version for Mix) in PT 7 or 8. For Mac if you have SDII files you have to convert to WAV on import. I used to run 10 Digidesign cards in a 13 Slot Magma Chassis with 2 MIX I/O cards. You can run 48 tracks max on windows and 64 tracks on Mac. You can open a PT 7 or 8 session in PT 6 but you first have to save as a PT 6 session in PT 7 or 8 before you load it onto your mix system. The I/O and and other things can get screwed up though as I remember.

 

[joeymusicguy]

if you're going to make the switch
im selling a whole rig for really cheap

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...-accel-w-192-i-o-d-upgrade-ilok-licenses.html

 

[aortizjr]

Personally I wouldn't switch unless you were already using Pro Tools LE and mainly needed the higher track count.

And even then, going TDM vs. HD, that is taking a step back and I think will end up cost you more in the long run as support and compatibility drops.

If you are looking at saving money, maybe look at the features you are actually using in Nuendo. Perhaps Cubase would suffice. Nuendo should qualify for a crossgrade saving you some cash. Or look at other DAW's as well, again you should qualify for a Crossgrade with most of them.

So for all your pros:

Zero-Latency Recording: You can achieve that other ways. Or use low buffer settings, I haven't had a single band complain running at 128 which gives me about 4ms. Not even I can tell except when doing vocals. Then I just my interface's internal routing for that, no problem.

Compatibility: These days even between ProTools systems compatibility isn't there. You have to re-route, plugins may not be there, etc. I collaborate with folks running Reaper, Pro Tools, Cubase, Nuendo, Sonar, Studio One, etc. And we all just export stems and MIDI, works great. And for writing collaboration, we even just send MP3's for quick downloads. If the engineer at the other studio isn't willing to make them from ProTools, which is cake, then I would question other things.

Software Upgrades: With TDM I think you will get yourself stuck in a tough spot, requiring you to buy HD later on or go LE as OS upgrades and such happen. There will ALWAYS be upgrade costs, just the fact of life. I think taking a step back to TDM will cost you way more than even going HD out the gate.

Now Pro Tools HD, does attract a different level of clients. Most bands don't give a shit, your work speaks for itself even out of bedrooms. Others you don't know see a mixing console and rooms and want a good rate and are sold.

But some that are looking for HD, want it, and they fall into a category where they are good and knowledgeable enough to know what and why they need it. Or they are just shopping with buzzwords. Or usually if you have spent 15k+ on just your DAW and interfaces, you have spent money elsewhere like rooms, mics, outboard, etc.

 

[ahjteam]

contra:
i have to learn a completely new system/workflow
limited to 48 tracks (or am i wrong?)
can´t use my beloved uad plugins
tdm plugins are much more expensive

The non-HD PT TDM is so old that it's not even funny. Like +10 years. And switching from Nuendo 3 would be more like a downgrade than an upgrade because I think the last update you can get is like PT version 5.x

 

[BLUElightCory]

First off, TDM and HD are the same thing.

If the OP is referring to the legacy Mix systems, I would save your money and put it into something else; the Mix systems are LONG obsolete. PTHD is Digi/Avid's current TDM system.

You can have more than 48 tracks (max track count depends on the system).
You can use your UAD cards.
TDM plugs are more expensive but you can use RTAS plugs in many situations, and even VST plugs with the FXPansion wrapper.

A few more pros:
- Very high system stability/reliability
- Much better workflow options than PTLE (can't compare to Cubase)
- Automatic delay compensation (compensates for processing delays from plugs/routing)

If you're thinking about switching to PT, and if you aren't getting a smoking deal on a PTHD system, you should probably hold off for now as there are substantial rumors of more new systems (including a possible native PTHD system) around the corner. If/when this happens, you can either get the latest/greatest thing OR pick up a PTHD system at a lower price.

 

[drew_drummer]

Don't do it. You're going back in time if you do...

 

[greyskull]

I'd honestly even as a huge pro tools lover; discourage going to back to mix.
despite the fact that loads of people used it for years blah blah blah...It's horrible.

 

[MetalSound]

thanks guys. i read on the uad site about the plugin delay compensation thing in pt mix. this is really back to the middle ages.
maybe i should stick with nuendo/cubase.

 

[DigitalMetal]

Dont do it, i still have a mix system that i use for tracking but thats about all its good for these days (damn rock solid for that purpose!)
from what i remember from waaay back, ADC came in at 6.4 on HD cards so it might no be there for mix hardware
Get a second hand Mbox or M-Audio interface with M-Powered to learn PT while still using what you have for your main work,
that way you can see if you get on with PT without investing too much and loosing your current stable sytem,
I had an HD system but sold it while the prices were still good to recoup some money, and im getting along fine now with LE and M-powered 8 on 2 different machines.
Lack of ADC doesnt really effect me as much as i thought it would there are easy work arounds and i usually use low latency plugins like McDSP and Softube.

 

[darthjujuu]

Personally I wouldn't switch unless you were already using Pro Tools LE and mainly needed the higher track count.

music production toolkit??