long time cubase/nuendo user looking to go PT

[joeymusicguy]

hey guys

i've been producing and recording in cubase for years, and just recently this year nuendo. but lately i've been thinking about making the switch to protools.

some might say, why not stay with nuendo?
a few reasons...

first of all, i see that my style of recording and work flow has changed over time. i used to record a lot of a cd all flat, then edit, mix, and mess with the audio after that. lately i've found my self doing it as i go a long. i discovered that i work much better in this fashion. the vst and nuendo generally just slow me down. im always fighting latency issues and there's always these thoughts in the back of my head saying, can't do this or that to the drums because we'll have difficulty playing back / editing vocal takes during a vocal session later on, gonna have to wait until mixing. i would like to rid this worry from my mind, as i feel it effects my ability to work to my full potential. so latency free with specific number of allowed tracks / effects able to run in real time is very attractive.

secondly, the editing capabilities seem to be just a tad bit more robust in protools. i've also thought of scenarios where i could do a quick drum replacement on a track, for a vocal session, without having to run any plugins, while i can print those to a track and then later at mixing time, just really replace the drums when i have more time and focus. usually with nuendo, i just deal with what was tracked, and if what was tracked sounds kind of bad, we have to hear that for the entire session.

last, i've heard that protools is very network friendly, and can usually work easily with other protools systems. projects can be sent all over and remain in tact with ease.

im used to working with around 2 or 3 inserts on every channel, with about 32 - 64 channels or so. so i'll need a system that can handle this pay load. im also used to use fire wire interfaces, such as the rme 800. im very picky about a/d d/a conversion, and i would want to use my own preamps, not digidesign ones (unless they have a very transparent one).

i used to be a computer tech, and my experience with computers is based on about 90% PC for about 8 years, and only 10% mac. the real question, protools is going to kick ass on.... pc or mac?

so im wondering, how and where should i get started? what kind of budget will i need to build a functioning system. i have rtas versions of my plugins, this should work fine with protools?

thanks ahead of time for reading and answering

 

[greyskull]

Welcome to the light my child.
lol seriously...
i'd say your options are twofold.

Invest in a HD1 system with a 192 or 96, or an apogee with a digi card,
then with the money left over buy an ssl duende, tc powercore and uad1 or any multiple of those cards, amzing plugins, and dsp power... dreamage. This of course is the most expensive route then maybe add accel cards when you can afford them

you could also look into running le with the music production tool kit with as 002 or 003 (id suggest getting the rack and a controller like the command 8 or control 24) (like me) although you will need a much more powerful machine for le. but the afformentioned dsp cards should sort you out when it comes to mixing.

the only problem here is the loss of plugin delay compensation, although once you get your head round it; its really not too much of an issue. People did it in protools mix for years.

Transfer between systems is really painless once you know how to do it properly...
You should save as "song.transfer" delete all unused regions and clear the region list, consolidate if it is to be mixed, then Save session copy as.... "song transfer 1" and tick the boxes "copy all audio files" and "dont copy fade files".
then burn to dvd or copy via network or digidelivery, open it up in the other system and ignore the box that says "the original disk allocation cannot be used" all is well!!!

Finally, your better off on mac.
I dont want to restart the age old debate, but trust me you are. way way way more stable in pt, and the dsp cards give you more juice on a mac too..wierd eh!

Trust me once you get into pro tools world theres no going back
the first time you press apple 8 and make those godawful drums perfect ... magic

but seriously ask me anything you want bout tools, i reckon ive got a pretty decent knowledge.

 

[sparkyness]

It seems that you have a few issues going on at once: workflow, CPU performance, operating system, etc. Sounds like a bit of prioritisation is needed. Conquering one of these might solve some of the other questions. When doing what you're thinking of doing there's lots of things such as learning curves for new O/S and apps that need to be considered, let alone justifying the costs involved. But sometimes it's just healthy to learn new approaches too though. It just depends on your needs, goals and priorities.

I've been a Nuendo guy for a while now initially for post-production work and now for straight audio stuff and have limited exposure to fully-fledged PT rigs. That being said, I've come across workflow and performance issues in the past but recently built myself a new high-spec all-Intel DAW and am very happy with my Nuendo rig now. The old rig just didn't have enough in the tank to do what I wanted it to do. Now I run some fairly hefty projects of 70+ tracks and lots of plugs, with no latency issues. Upgrading the PC might be a way of getting it to work to your desired workflow without other costs or learning curves to conquer.

The other argument is PT is the industry standard if that's one of your needs. You seem to be doing a lot of label work at the moment and (hopefully) this should build a bit of momentum for you, it may be worth the jump for compatibility and educational reasons alone.

Decisions, decisions..... good luck!

 

[MetalWorks]

I went through the same exact debate.

I am running Nuendo 2 on a MAC G4 1.2ghz Dual Harddrives with 1.75GB memory.

I basically record my drums in one project and then export them to a stereo track in a new project with the Vocals, bass, guitars, etc.

That way I can pretty much do as much VST work on the drums as needed. Drumagog, EQ's, Reverbs, Compressions, Gates, etc on each drum track.

To make a change on the drums I just go back to the other project, change it and re add it to the final mix again.

It takes a few minutes extra between exporting and opening and closing multiple projects but it saves my ass with the hastles that come with doing everything in one project.

I am pretty stable and dont use any additional cards like TC Powercore or UAD1.

I kept thinking that my problems would be solved by going to Pro Tools HD.

I was even considering selling my car to be able to afford it.

Basically I would need to spend a good $7000 just to get started.

Theres alot of stuff out there for $7000 if I just got my shit together.

I could get a Quad Core G5, Upgrade to Nuendo 4, buy Waves Platinum, Get a UAD with all the add ons and a TC Power core and still have another $1000 left.

Or be stuck with the same old G4 and HD1 with one HD Converter.

I went to Pro Tools forums and other boards to ask for advice and others told me that Pro Tools has all of its own problems as well.

In the end I decided to hold off and that there really isn't a legitimate reason to switch unless I had over $25,000 to blow for the fun of it.

Good luck though. I know its tough.

 

[zmetallica]

protools is overrated unless as metalworks stated, you got 25k to easily spend. remember when you do the conversion, you mat need new plug ins (protools doesn't support VST) as well as their own hardware. I'd suggest looking into logic or digital performer. both are very powerful. if not, just stick with what you have and learn work arounds and get good at em.

 

[CJWall]

i just made the switch from Nuendo to Pro Tools M-Powered. don't regret it a bit.

PT is so much more intuitive to me. things just seem to make sense, where in Nuendo some things seemed convoluted and kind of mundane. Everything is available through keyboard shortcuts, EVERYTHING which makes workflow super-fast and editing faster still.

the routing alone is worth it IMO. just like a large-format console.

i'm going to be using a Lightbridge to get into PT and then just connect my RME Fireface VIA ADAT for all my I/O. Should work perfect and be your best option if you don't want to go HD yet.

I say get a little PT rig, whether it be M-Powered or LE, and see how you like it. decide from there whether or not you want to go HD.

only thing I miss in Nuendo is faster than realtime bounce, but it's not a huge deal for me and delay compensation is NOT a big deal and for me, 80% of my plug-ins incur NO DELAY at all and the ones that do, I just nudge back.

 

[Mutant]

i've cracked the pro tools code

BIG LOL

 

[broken81]

personally i love pro tools and have not had any problems with anything except programing midi drums and i just run cubase for that and then export midi track and import into protools and I'm off.

But for editing real drums and everything audio is just so easy and strait forward. I say go for it personally and im sure you will enjoy......

Digi 002 with black lion audio mod or a good clock is a nice choice if you can't afford the hd.

 

[NickL]

I've had a lot of problems with Pro Tools LE (but less than with Nuendo, although I can run a lot more plugs in Nuendo for some shitty reason) but HD is just beyond awesome. Also, I recently got an Intel mac and pro tools runs a shit ton better on there

 

[joeymusicguy]

my understanding of protools is that it is always latency free. of course not exactley , but close. and thats the thing im most concerned about in switching, i want to be able to mix as i go along, and if someone comes up with an idea, i dont want to have to take plugins out of inserts, change my audio card's buffer to something lower so the latency will be low, then have to setup and record, where i feel with protools i'll just be able to leave all of the plugins i've already added where they are, and just hit record.

is it really that flexible? or am i just dreaming?

its really hard to do lots of layers of singing vocals when each vocal track requires its own gate, compressor, desser, and auto tune. it starts to stack up quick, and makes the latency free party a clicky one.

direct monitoring isnt an option as the voice often sounds very dry and crappy without compression. and its extra wasted time when you're not listening to what its going to sound like in the daw anyways.

so thats my motivation for this switch, to be able to not have limitations of how many plugins i can use while remaining at low latency. i hear with protools, you aren't limited in this manner.

its a costly switch, for sure. but then again, i do this for a living, and my career is based on how well i can accomplish things with work flow. if protools is going to make my work flow better, i need to be there. no one has time to wait around.

 

[AudioPhile777]

my understanding of protools is that it is always latency free. of course not exactley , but close. and thats the thing im most concerned about in switching, i want to be able to mix as i go along, and if someone comes up with an idea, i dont want to have to take plugins out of inserts, change my audio card's buffer to something lower so the latency will be low, then have to setup and record, where i feel with protools i'll just be able to leave all of the plugins i've already added where they are, and just hit record.

is it really that flexible? or am i just dreaming?

its really hard to do lots of layers of singing vocals when each vocal track requires its own gate, compressor, desser, and auto tune. it starts to stack up quick, and makes the latency free party a clicky one.

direct monitoring isnt an option as the voice often sounds very dry and crappy without compression. and its extra wasted time when you're not listening to what its going to sound like in the daw anyways.

so thats my motivation for this switch, to be able to not have limitations of how many plugins i can use while remaining at low latency. i hear with protools, you aren't limited in this manner.

its a costly switch, for sure. but then again, i do this for a living, and my career is based on how well i can accomplish things with work flow. if protools is going to make my work flow better, i need to be there. no one has time to wait around.

Yeah... none of those problem exist for me in pro tools... I need more RAM as a general drawback, but other than that... I'm good to go and you will be too.

 

[greyskull]

my understanding of protools is that it is always latency free. of course not exactley , but close. and thats the thing im most concerned about in switching, i want to be able to mix as i go along, and if someone comes up with an idea, i dont want to have to take plugins out of inserts, change my audio card's buffer to something lower so the latency will be low, then have to setup and record, where i feel with protools i'll just be able to leave all of the plugins i've already added where they are, and just hit record.

is it really that flexible? or am i just dreaming?

its really hard to do lots of layers of singing vocals when each vocal track requires its own gate, compressor, desser, and auto tune. it starts to stack up quick, and makes the latency free party a clicky one.

direct monitoring isnt an option as the voice often sounds very dry and crappy without compression. and its extra wasted time when you're not listening to what its going to sound like in the daw anyways.

so thats my motivation for this switch, to be able to not have limitations of how many plugins i can use while remaining at low latency. i hear with protools, you aren't limited in this manner.

its a costly switch, for sure. but then again, i do this for a living, and my career is based on how well i can accomplish things with work flow. if protools is going to make my work flow better, i need to be there. no one has time to wait around.

this depends on whether or not the plugin itself causes latency,(unless you have tdm) but you could use the bomb factory bf76 for tracking to get the vibe if you want

 

[greyskull]

protools is overrated unless as metalworks stated, you got 25k to easily spend. remember when you do the conversion, you mat need new plug ins (protools doesn't support VST) as well as their own hardware. I'd suggest looking into logic or digital performer. both are very powerful. if not, just stick with what you have and learn work arounds and get good at em.

yes it does.
via vst to rtas wrapper

 

[broken81]

I track with plugins on and mix as i go all the time in protools with no problems at all. The bands like to hear there stuff come to life a bit and it really sparks a vibe and it just seem to get creative energy flowing between everyone and also open new doors sometimes.

Not sure which route your going to go Joey Hd or LE but black lion audio just came out with another mod for the digi002 thats is looking mighty sweet!

I think i have like 2 plugins i have a latency problem (think there both pitch shifters) with and thats out of like 100 plugs or more Yes and you can run vst so you get the best of both worlds!!!! Whats not to love honestly besides the price tag

 

[zmetallica]

yes it does.
via vst to rtas wrapper

hmmm really? never heard of this for protools. i'll have to look into it. all the pros tell me that protools only accepts RTAS/TDM and such. i figured there was a way around it, but i gotta take their word for it as I've never used an HD rig.

 

[KeithRT99]

why doesn't pro tools offer an offline bounce feature? that's a big issue i have with pt. is there a benefit to realtime bounce?

 

[AudioPhile777]

why doesn't pro tools offer an offline bounce feature? that's a big issue i have with pt. is there a benefit to realtime bounce?

You get to bill the client for that time... ... I think thats why digi left it in there...

 

[AudioPhile777]

hmmm really? never heard of this for protools. i'll have to look into it. all the pros tell me that protools only accepts RTAS/TDM and such. i figured there was a way around it, but i gotta take their word for it as I've never used an HD rig.

FXPansion makes it... go check it out.

 

[NickL]

why doesn't pro tools offer an offline bounce feature? that's a big issue i have with pt. is there a benefit to realtime bounce?

i have this issue with LE also. pro tools has a tendency to run out of CPU power just as the song is finishing up so it sometimes takes a half hour to bounce a single song:Smug:

 

[AudioPhile777]

i have this issue with LE also. pro tools has a tendency to run out of CPU power just as the song is finishing up so it sometimes takes a half hour to bounce a single song:Smug:

I ran into that problem on one song that I recently did... I was running a shit ton of inserts, though... so i had to do some consolidating and make the session a little less CPU intensive...