Tracking bass only with the DI tips

[Metaltastic]

So I've been recording the bass parts for my EP, and am just going straight into one of the instrument-in's on my Onyx 400F - however, I notice that between how dynamic the signal is and how ridiculously rumbly it can get, it's hard as hell to really discern whether what I'm playing will work in the end, or rather, despite the fact that I feel like I'm playing it really tight, listening back the aforementioned dynamics issues make it sound really sloppy, even if I hit all the notes decisively and in-time, with no noises. Of course, this challenges me to attempt to play more dynamically consistently, and I guess that's a good thing, but it also means often even the simplest parts take so many takes to get sounding decent.

What I'm getting at is, would it be better for me to keep soldiering through and trying to make the dynamics as even as possible without any compression? Or do you think I could get away with putting some squeeze on the track and monitoring through it in real-time? I ask this (rather than the old "trying both and picking which is better" routine) because I don't have much experience working with DI-only bass tracks (in the past I've always had a mic'ed amp as the majority of the tone, with the DI blended in), so I don't really know how they sound after the required compression/distorting/eq'ing/etc. (and that'll be later down the line anyway, when the whole mix is coming together). So when you guys are tracking straight-DI bass, do you put any plugs on the track for monitoring? All I've been doing is just temporarily high-passing at around 120 Hz to kill the excessive rumble.

Thanks!

 

[Charles J]

For sure dude! I always monitor through some sort of Bass Amp sim.

This of course, does not get recorded to the track itself, rather, I'm still capturing the straight DI of the bass but allowing myself to HEAR the bass as if it was being played through a real, mic'd bass rig.

I usually use Pod Farm for this task (because I don't have any latency/CPU issues while using it) but AmpegSVX and Studio Devil VBA or both good for this as well (and seeing as how I usually dupe the DI and send it through AmpegSVX come mix time, it makes sense to hear how the bass is going to sound, or at least some relativity to it.

Maybe a little grit/ampsim/compression will coax some better performances out of you and make you want to track the bass, where now, it sounds like it's kind of a pain in the ass!

Whatever it takes to feel comfy and get those keeper takes, my man!

 

[Trevoire520]

To be honest I think 90% of the people on here are using some pretty heavy compression on their bass guitars in the mix, getting your playing dynamically tight will improve the end result but assuming its not entirely all over the place it should come out pretty good. I can't see the harm in putting on a bit of compression for monitoring while you're tracking.

 

[Metaltastic]

Yeah, thanks guys, and of course your right, it's gonna be compressed and processed to hell and back in the end - mainly, I guess what I'm saying is at this point I don't know what my final chain will be, and I fear that if I monitor through something like PodFarm while tracking but end up not using a tone like that in the end, because I may have adjusted my playing to sound best through that PodFarm chain, it might not work as well through whatever I end up using. Obviously I don't worry about these things nearly as much with guitar, probably because I'm about 4 billion trillion quadrillion times more confident a guitarist than bassist, but also because I feel like with bass a lot more tone shaping comes from how the instrument is played - or maybe there's just as much with the guitar, it just comes naturally to me so I don't think of it.

So yeah, as is undoubtedly quite obvious, bass is some seriously uncharted territory for me, so I think for now I'll just stick with the aforementioned high-pass and then taking off a few dB's with a compressor, and then get the rest of it consistent through my playing! And yeah, naturally all that's being recorded is the DI track, low-latency monitoring FTW

 

[GarethSE]

Treat it as a learning experience and just put an amp sim on man
As long as you feel like you're hitting the strings consistently, in your case you most likely are, you're a consistent player. Hit the strings consistently hard, monitor with an amp sim and then just work with what you end up with

 

[Charles J]

Treat it as a learning experience and just put an amp sim on man
As long as you feel like you're hitting the strings consistently, in your case you most likely are, you're a consistent player. Hit the strings consistently hard, monitor with an amp sim and then just work with what you end up with

+1. Sometimes bro, you just gotta fucking do it!

Overthinking, I have found, can be uber detrimental when dealing with anything to do w/the creative process (whether it be writing, recording, mixing, etc).

I do however, respect the fact that you want whatever you do to come out the BEST it possibly can so, I understand.

 

[Metaltastic]

Haha, thanks Gareth + Charlie, and you're right, in the future I think I will experiment a bit with a monitoring chain - however, for this EP I don't wanna take any chances, and I've already suffered through tracking the bass parts for 3 songs, so I might as well finish the 4th the same way! I just love recording myself, so I can be as obsessive about takes as I want (and it can get ridiculous, especially with solos - I'm sure I'm real unique in that way )

 

[AudioPhile777]

When I'm tracking bass (whether I'm playing or someone else), I have the DI signal going into an actual amp as well... I bought a small bass amp just for this purpose (Line6 Studio110 or whatever its called)... Sounds remarkably good for a practice amp.

 

[Full_Tilt]

bass is some seriously uncharted territory for me, so I think for now I'll just stick with the aforementioned high-pass and then taking off a few dB's with a compressor, and then get the rest of it consistent through my playing! And yeah, naturally all that's being recorded is the DI track, low-latency monitoring FTW

You and me both and Ive been playing bass for ever .
Its hard to get a truly decent mix with power if the bass is sounding wrong.
As long as you dont end up whacking the strings so hard that they start slapping against the frets your D.I track should be good for reamping . Bass is not kind to out of time playing either. As for comp and EQ I have a hard time tracking bass if I hear too much or too little detail ,its just a balancing act that engineers have always taken care of for me im getting there though.

 

[Chris_P_Critter]

Marcus, this might be a good opportunity for you ro experiment with Parallel compression (like we talked about the other day). I always Para-copmpress my bass tracks and get decent results.

 

[lolzgreg]

Sometimes the bass can sound odd coming in, but remember, it is your duty as the player to play as consistently volume and attack wise as you WANT to. The key word here is WANT. You control the instrument, so if you're unhappy with your playing, practice more. I know where you're coming from; string inbalances + playing certain riffs just sounds different. I agree with Charlie that you shouldn't over-think it, though.

 

[Metaltastic]

Well the problem there, Greg, is I WANT to play it only as dynamically consistently as is required for a good end product, though I don't know how much that is, so as I said I'm sucking it up for now Chris, thanks for that dude - I'm not sure if I'd wanna monitor through parallel compression for the tracking stage (which is mainly what I'm asking about here, rather than the mixing stage), but hey, I'll give it a shot next time, why not!

Mat, that's a damn good idea dude - the only problem is I'd need to get an active DI, because while I love my Redeye as a DI for my guitars (with EMG's), I wouldn't want to use it with passive pickups (as the Barts in my J-Bass are). May pick up another Countryman (this time to keep ) down the road though!

Full Tilt, thanks for the reassurance dude, and yeah, I can imagine a lot of the best bassists still rely on the engineer to get a decent monitoring sound for them so they can really get into it when tracking!

 

[Chris_P_Critter]

Word... didn't read thoroughly enough. It might defeat the purpose to monitor that way, since you're interested in monitoring the dynamics of the performance. I like it in a mix though!

 

[narcossintese]

When tracking bass with PodFarm I like to use the Pawn Shop Punk preset.

 

[shadowmac]

Again, playing consistency is the most important aspect in any recording. This consistency is exactly what allows you to have dynamics. Often times, a player has to reign himself in a bit, take a few breaths and relax. I think that most if not all players found a time early (and even sometime later) in their recording days when they were just playing too damned hard, which eliminates most (if not all) opportunities for crescendo. So, playing is primary.

I generally use a hint of compression AFTER the track is recorded, not before. Effects, including compression are far more manageable after you have played the track the way it should be played. These post-recording modifications can be tweaked as needed. If you record with an effect, its there forever. Signal modulators (chorus, delay, phase, etc) and compression are the most significant in mix-down situations, because the guitars and vocals likely use modulation as well and if the modulations don't line up, it can sound like an absolute train wreck - constantly out of phase. What I am suggesting, is to play well, refine the sound coming from your bass and remember that less is often more in terms of effects.

Good luck. Jamie Mac - HEDDA

 

[AudioPhile777]

Mat, that's a damn good idea dude - the only problem is I'd need to get an active DI, because while I love my Redeye as a DI for my guitars (with EMG's), I wouldn't want to use it with passive pickups (as the Barts in my J-Bass are). May pick up another Countryman (this time to keep ) down the road though!

Yeah, I've been rockin' my type-85 from the get-go.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Marcus you are over thinking it. You should not worry about the dry sound as you are recording, regardless of whether you are using processing in your monitor or not (as long as its not effecting the dry signal). bass is going to sound rubly and sloppy and intelligible without processing. Don't worry about your ears adjusting to the monitored sound that you made when recording, that really won't happen as you are worrying too much and are creating false fears, just add an amp and cab sim while you record jsut to get a better feel of the bass, and then remove is and start from scratch with the DI when you are mixing

- record the dry singals the way you are comfortable doing it
- listen over it to make sure you placed everything correctly
- throw on an amp sim preferably one that has a power amp sim if not add a power amp sim
- add clipping (amp sim distortion) to your preference, though you won't want to go with completely clean bass, you want some clipping even if you are going for a cleaner sound
- bring the power amp up until is starts compression, but don't push it to saturation unless that is what you want
- throw on an impulse
- add a high pass, usually around 60, don't go higher than that unless you want you guitars to sound beefier than the bass
- add compression, add more compression, add limiting/soft clipper (better to use an analog tube compressor (real or virtual))
- eq to flavor, usually a 2-3 db boost at 100 adds balls without being boomy, take a bit out at 400, add some add 1k and a decent sized boost at 3-5k and roll of heavily at 8-10k to preference (again that is all my preference but for me it has made for a very solid but tangible bass tone)

 

[Metaltastic]

Cool dude, mixing-wise I'm not worried, but thanks all the same, and in the future I think I will try coming up with a decent monitoring chain to make my life a bit easier!

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Cool dude, mixing-wise I'm not worried, but thanks all the same, and in the future I think I will try coming up with a decent monitoring chain to make my life a bit easier!

well I gave you some mixing advice Bass can be tricky for new guys, the secret is compression, just like vocals, if done right it sounds good so just compress the bass to high hell and it should sit in the mix well.

in my experience all you need in your chain for recording is an amp sim and an impulse. When you play you don't really notice excessive dynamics and actaully adding compression makes shit feel weird. A simple amp/cab simulation coloration/flavor will be more than plenty for monitoring.

 

[Metaltastic]

Thanks dude, but I'm actually not a new guy, I've been doing this for awhile As I said, just never had to track bass solely via the DI until now (and only recently got a bass of my own)